Imagine uncovering the human side of medicine, where ethics and aesthetics intertwine with deeply personal narratives. That’s precisely what we bring to light with our guest, Dr. Sirach Darbinian from Zavant Aesthetics—an anesthetic doctor with a flair for masterful injectables. Dr. Darbinian's stories strike a chord, whether it’s his candid discussion about the challenges of body dysmorphia and patient exploitation in his field, or the profound impact his sexuality has had on his life and his open-hearted approach to medicine.
This episode transcends the typical medical talk, with Dr. Darbinian taking us on an odyssey from his academic roots in Armenia to his nocturnal inclinations and the delicate act of juggling a demanding career with personal growth. The doctor’s transition from anesthesiology to the artistry of aesthetics reveals not only his precision and passion but also an unwavering commitment to ethical practice—a testament to his belief in the sanctity of patient education and well-being.
Listen as we unpack the seriousness of aesthetic medicine's ethical landscape, while also indulging in the lighter side of establishing deep intellectual connections and shared interests. Dr. Darbinian's first podcast appearance is a treasure trove of insights, from the importance of refusing unnecessary procedures to the personal quirks that drive perfectionism. You’ll leave this episode feeling both enlightened and entertained, having glimpsed the life of a doctor who not only cares for the external beauty of his patients but also cherishes the beauty of a life well-examined.
Imagine uncovering the human side of medicine, where ethics and aesthetics intertwine with deeply personal narratives. That’s precisely what we bring to light with our guest, Dr. Sirach Darbinian from Zavant Aesthetics—an anesthetic doctor with a flair for masterful injectables. Dr. Darbinian's stories strike a chord, whether it’s his candid discussion about the challenges of body dysmorphia and patient exploitation in his field, or the profound impact his sexuality has had on his life and his open-hearted approach to medicine.
This episode transcends the typical medical talk, with Dr. Darbinian taking us on an odyssey from his academic roots in Armenia to his nocturnal inclinations and the delicate act of juggling a demanding career with personal growth. The doctor’s transition from anesthesiology to the artistry of aesthetics reveals not only his precision and passion but also an unwavering commitment to ethical practice—a testament to his belief in the sanctity of patient education and well-being.
Listen as we unpack the seriousness of aesthetic medicine's ethical landscape, while also indulging in the lighter side of establishing deep intellectual connections and shared interests. Dr. Darbinian's first podcast appearance is a treasure trove of insights, from the importance of refusing unnecessary procedures to the personal quirks that drive perfectionism. You’ll leave this episode feeling both enlightened and entertained, having glimpsed the life of a doctor who not only cares for the external beauty of his patients but also cherishes the beauty of a life well-examined.
Why don't you do this? Blah, blah, blah. He said, okay, I will do that. So I ramped down my schedule at UCLA, got told a quitter, a traitor, you're selling your soul fundamentally shaped who I am as an injector, because it's an experience that I couldn't have gone any other way. I don't know, I wasn't sure, but in eighth grade I was like, oh my God, this is not, this isn't it, this isn't. Something's really wrong with me, like the fact that I'm gay and I'm open-minded and I'm educated and I don't judge. I try to learn and understand the fact that it's difficult for me to understand gender issues and where gender leads.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, thank you for joining me today. On today's episode we had Dr Sirach Darbinian. Dr Sirach Darbinian is an aesthetic doctor at Zavant Aesthetics. He's also an anesthesiologist. He's a master injector at Zavant and incredibly intelligent gentleman. Our conversation was quite interesting. We talked a lot about the medical field. We talked a lot about body dysmorphia what's really going on out there as we see so much difficulty with people in the aesthetic world, people taking advantage, doctors taking advantage of patients.
Speaker 2:It was really interesting to see his thoughts, to hear his thoughts. We talked a lot about his sexuality, which I'm so grateful for that he opened up about. We talked about his mother. We talked about his dad, his upbringing. We dived into so many different topics. The conversation was pretty powerful and, I would say, organized. It was quite interesting to see and hear his thoughts about life, the aesthetic world, the medical field. He's just an interesting person in general. We talked about personal experiences as well and I really want you guys to view this episode because it's really different than most conversations that I've had. So stay tuned and this episode is definitely going to keep you guys intrigued. Thank you for joining me. First of all, I'm so excited that you're here. I want to pick that brain of yours because you're so intelligent. I remember was it a year and a half ago. Two years ago we were both talking about humans and how sometimes there are lizards.
Speaker 1:Who brought that up, by the way, you did.
Speaker 2:You said Queen Elizabeth is a lizard.
Speaker 1:Did I say that Lizard Like yeah. That must have been post-COVID, very like shortly after Post-COVID.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think we're both like really into things that were happening and you had gave me access to a research database. What was it called U?
Speaker 1:to date. Up to datecom.
Speaker 2:Wow, I was just in there reading articles.
Speaker 1:We're not supposed to share our passwords, but I shared my password that's when. That's when it was like a love match right there I gave you my password how did we meet by the?
Speaker 2:the way we met online, isn't it sad we forgot.
Speaker 1:People are going to think we met online like online, like dating.
Speaker 2:But no, it was Instagram. Oh, we did. And then we worked together on a psychology paper.
Speaker 1:We did. We talked about psychology, then we talked about Joe and then I think you even talked to Joe, didn't you talk to joe?
Speaker 2:who's?
Speaker 1:joe, my partner. Oh my, yes, he's gonna be watching this. It was on speaker. It was on speaker. We had a conversation on speaker.
Speaker 2:You were cooking mussels with spaghetti, do you remember?
Speaker 1:that I remember it.
Speaker 2:Yes, my long-term memory is actually pretty good. It's the short term. That's not well, but we did, we, we talked, and then I think he was in his practicum, aka residency, if you want to call it and um, he was finishing up a paper and then you reached out. You said can you look over it? I looked over it.
Speaker 1:I'm like this paper is perfect remember I was one of his application. I remember I was like correcting and I was doing my best he was an alliant international right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see yeah, eddie, I'm impressed of course I mean a family therapist. You have to have good memory. Some therapists like take notes.
Speaker 1:I never took notes I've always wondered do you ever confuse your clients like they walk in that their issues?
Speaker 2:no, you have notes, never never, never, not even in practicum, not even, not even in the practice, private practice I was working at like my boss was just she's like how do you even I'm not kidding from the text messages and how the text message is written, I can tell which client it is? And the number is not even saved. That's how amazing my memory is that's incredible.
Speaker 1:Knock on wood, it's all that?
Speaker 2:what's that?
Speaker 1:supplement bakopa there is one called bakopa, yeah it's good for memory. I heard ginkgo is good for memory. Ginkgo is good for sure. It's good for sure. I take that. Good for sure, I take that every day.
Speaker 2:We talked about supplements. So I don't know. I think we just overall had a really good connection.
Speaker 1:We had a long conversation I remember. And then I also remember one time I was driving home from work. I was on the freeway and I was stuck in traffic for about an hour and 15 minutes. We were on the phone the entire time we were yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:Time yeah, I love it, you know it's. I feel like it's very rare to find people to have intellectual conversations with. Do you feel like that sometimes?
Speaker 1:I feel very cozy with you right now yes, I'm so happy?
Speaker 2:well, you know, I'm it's. What is this? The seventh episode? I'm still learning how to be a host so I'm that's a compliment that you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1:You're navigating it super well, really, 100%. I swear to God that means a lot. It's my first one and I get super shy with cameras. I'm the first, you're my first in so many ways.
Speaker 2:I'm the first. Oh my God, I'm so happy. That makes me smile.
Speaker 1:No, for sure, You're super good.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little about yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's like a loaded question how?
Speaker 2:about. Okay, what do you do? Tell us, you don't need an introduction. So, let's just start there.
Speaker 1:At home, I do Netflix, chill and cook Uh-huh and love my partner. What else do I do At work? Currently I'm an injector, so I'm an aesthetic provider.
Speaker 2:But you were an anesthesiologist too.
Speaker 1:Or are, Should we say was. But you're right. I mean my training, my official training and board certification is in anesthesiology. So I practiced. For if you practice for 10 years independently, if you add four more years to residency, that's like 14 years of practice oh my god, um it was great. It was love at first sight in medical school how did you get into med school, though?
Speaker 2:your brother is also? Your brother is also a heart surgeon.
Speaker 1:He is, he's a big shot actually at first he cedars I believe? No, no, he his practice. He does surgeries in multiple hospitals. He's the chief of cardiac surgery, admission hospital there you go and I think he's not. I think and he's also the head of all cardiac surgery programs at all providence hospitals in southern california you just have one brother.
Speaker 2:One brother, you guys me. So how did you get into education Like that's phenomenal? I love that. Your parents must have done something right.
Speaker 1:My mom's. She's very educated. She has a PhD in genetics and in stem cell sciences. My dad also had a PhD in plant physiology. You know, growing up in my family was kind of interesting. I never thought of anything other than education.
Speaker 1:They almost tricked us. There was no other option to consider. So I went to school, did the regular school stuff in Armenia. Crazy kid, super crazy kid. I was all over the place, constantly out playing with my friends. Then I had so much energy it I have abnormal amount of energy so you were born in armenia born and raised and wow.
Speaker 2:So so you were born and raised in armenia. You went to school there. When did you migrate to this country?
Speaker 1:we immigrated in 2000. No, not 2000. It's 2000. We'll translate that. The fall baby just jumped out. Get back in there, all right. So it was in 1993, december, so pretty much I was 16. We came to the US, came straight to LA. I went to high school for about a year and a half. I went to high school for about a year and a half and my high school years were the most difficult years educationally in my entire life. Tell me about that. I had to learn how to speak English. I had to learn the words. I had to learn how to write. I would translate my biology textbook literally with a little 0.3 pencil and write the Armenian translations above it. And then when my brother bought me my first dictionary from Home Depot, it was like my world had opened up the whole time. You know, people are playing games. I was in my little dictionary and just going a next word, next word, next word, next word. And then I took the SATs, surprisingly gone into a few colleges.
Speaker 1:Surprisingly, Well, I didn't know. I mean, I had no idea. It was everything was so new to me, like everything was new the supermarkets, the culture, the culture of my own people, like Armenians in my high school, at Hoover High School, was very different than Armenian culture. Yeah, and I didn't have time to do anything other than school, so I was that kid that was always in school. Now, when I look back, I remember I preferred spending my lunch breaks in my chemistry class at Ms Ksakian's I don't know if she's watching, we'll watch.
Speaker 2:She would be so proud I loved her.
Speaker 1:She was such a huge influence in my life. She basically gave me the freedom to blossom and do and exist. And I had a few friends in high school, a few very close friends. We're still friends with. You know a few of them. And that was it. I did high school and then jumped on to UC Irvine and then went to medical school and then went to residency Irvine and then went to medical school and then went to residency, started working, did anesthesia at UCLA first, then concurrently found a couple cases to do at a private practice, fell in love with private practice because you didn't have to wake up at 4.30 in the morning to get ready for work. Cases started at 8 and then soon they realized that I'm not going to make it at 8 am, so they changed it to 9. Then they changed it to 9.30. I'm not a morning person.
Speaker 2:Really. Oh, that's right, Because when I text you 7 am in the morning, you kind of put me in my place and you said don't text me until 11.
Speaker 1:Did I seriously?
Speaker 2:You got mad at me and I am a morning person, like I wake up at 6 am and I was like oh, let me just text Syrah.
Speaker 1:When do you go to bed?
Speaker 2:9, 9.30.
Speaker 1:9.30. Don't you feel like life is over when you go to bed that early?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I have to have some sort of a mental issue because to me and in all honesty, this one time I was actually going to therapy just so I could cope better with my mom aging and her memory loss, and so I could handle the entire family situation. My brother helps me tremendously, you know.
Speaker 2:You guys are close.
Speaker 1:We are? Yeah, of course we're very, very close. He's my only brother, and so are my whole family's actually involved, and so my mom and my aunt live together, and you know they're both in their elderly years. And where was I going with this? I forgot.
Speaker 2:The early morning person, the early morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was talking to this therapist. Why is it that I feel like life is over if I have to go to bed so soon? Wow, so she's very psychodynamic, very great therapist, psychodynamic, very like old Freudian type of analysis, but those are the best ones. Yeah, yeah, it helped me a lot, but it was getting so deep, so deep into my psyche and it was incredible. But then we went on vacation.
Speaker 2:I came back so much more happy and I just stopped going to her, but she's always in the back of my mind yeah, there's a when you have a relationship with your therapist like that on a more personal level, I mean you go and share and you become so vulnerable with this person. You take that person with you everywhere you go, especially if they're wonderful and they make a huge impact in your life. But I still want to know why you're not a morning person? Why do you feel like the world's gonna or the world's ending for you when you go to bed earlier?
Speaker 1:I know it's like it's very weird. My all my friends know this about me. When we were younger they used to be terrified that if I was visiting from San Francisco, I went to medical school, that I would visit my friends in LA and they'd be like Srok's coming Because I wouldn't let anybody go to bed. We would have to stay up till like we're tired, maybe like four in the morning. I mean, I don't do that now, but the earliest I went to bed I go to bed now recently is maybe 1130 earliest.
Speaker 2:That's not too bad.
Speaker 1:But it's like once every four months. I went to bed at 1130 yesterday because I didn't want to look like shit today, so I was like I'm going to bed. No puffy eyes. So I went to bed early. That's early for me.
Speaker 2:I have kind of did my own research and discovery. I found out that people who have severe anxiety tend to go to bed early, tend to wake up early. It's just a way of being in control. That's just how I am. I'm obviously speaking from personal experience as well. So I don't know, it just works for me Going to bed too late as well. So I don't know, it just works for me going to bed too late. It's just I don't want to know and I get really tired and drained, like I'm a mom of two, consultant. Then I have this. So it's just overwhelming that's so interesting.
Speaker 1:I think I probably have fear of death and dying with me, and so I feel like, if I'm going, this was something that we were beginning to discover that if I go to bed, it almost feels like you're dying no way, yeah, and so I don't want to go to bed. Once I'm in bed and I do sleep I sleep normal.
Speaker 2:I don't have problems falling asleep.
Speaker 1:Once I'm sleeping, I don't want to wake up. Once I'm sleeping, I don't want to wake up. No-transcript. And then I wake up. I feel great, fantastic. I rarely sleep in like that these days, but I will sleep until 11, 11, 30, max, 12, because I do need to get up and I have stuff to do.
Speaker 2:I cannot sleep in like that also, I think that you have a huge responsibility, so maybe staying up at night keeps you more alert. You are caring for a mom. That's a lot on a person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly right, you're dealing with patients so you could have done like a major procedure, procedure that day on a patient. So you're just constantly on alert. I don't know. I I feel like a lot of medical students, especially residency, I don't know. Maybe you picked up night shifts or you're just kind of used to it, but mainly, I don't know, think about this. Maybe it's just the alert thing, could be wanting to be on alert. How are you feeling by the way you are taking care of your mom? How are you feeling?
Speaker 1:you know, I'm feeling better now than I did a year ago on. On one hand, in the beginning, when she was beginning to lose her memory, I was having to face that changing mother figure in my life myself. So that was quite a bit of difficult kind of navigation to do on my end and I would lash out and my partner Joe he's a psychologist too, and he would kind of put me in my place or I could see him kind of like retracting at my mom's house and then later I would hear it from him like a big long lecture on our drive home. And then I discovered that it's my own denial, that my mom's changing, that her cognition, memory is changing. But then now I accepted it and now it's phenomenal. I love her, I kiss her.
Speaker 1:You know, something funny happened the other day. I see her every day and I talk to her at least twice a day. In the morning I say good morning. We chit-chat, what do you eat? Blah, blah, blah. Same stuff. In the evening I call her. In the weekends I go to see her. I see her sometimes throughout the week too and I was loving and playing with her and I bit her on her shoulder. So this is so funny, so one of the nurses who comes to help her shower, she had to report the bruise, the bite.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, did they know that her child did?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it doesn't matter. I'm expecting a call from somebody because I bit my mom's shoulder. Let it be known we're on air. I, it was me. I bit it, it's out of.
Speaker 2:It's a love bite I don't think they're gonna understand. He's laughing too.
Speaker 1:It's true. Joe is like babe, you can't do that. What are you gonna tell them? I'm gonna tell them I'm an armenian guy who loves his mom a lot, I'm happy and I bit her yeah and she slapped me, so it was like both ways, I don't think.
Speaker 2:I think I mean we're, we're gonna understand it because it's cultural, like we play, like that. But yeah, they're going to probably call Adult Protective Services.
Speaker 1:They have to report it.
Speaker 2:But that's good, though they're very careful, and I think that it's a great thing, because there's a lot going on out there. So, I'm happy to hear that they're going to call you Tell us about your dad a little bit. I'm so curious to know. We kind of talked about it in the beginning.
Speaker 1:We kind of talked about it in the beginning. My dad he passed away in 1998. I was in college, I was a sophomore. Him and my mom had traveled to Armenia for vacation. My mom came back early because she was going to take care of my brother's younger my brother's daughter, the eldest one now. But my dad stayed for another week to have fun with his friends, etc. On his drive back to Yerevan from Sevan you know there's a very treacherous corner, somehow there and his car flipped over with him.
Speaker 1:His friend was in there, he was in there. They both flew out of the car, as I guess it went down the gorge or some sort of a drop. They both didn't make it, the dog made it, um and so see doc. I'm sorry I know it was crazy, crazy and how old were you? 18, maybe 17, 18, something very young crucial developmental time.
Speaker 1:You lost your dad yeah, yeah, very, very young. And then I just, my brother came, took my stuff. It was end of year already. I was in my finals. They told my roommate that this has happened. Make sure that none of Ciroc's friends tell him anything. So he could finish his finals and I would call home and talk. At home Everybody was fine, my mom's fine, everybody's okay. But meanwhile they were like mourning and getting ready. So the day I was moving out of college for that summer break, my brother came pick me. I can't forget this. He walked into the house and the first walked into my dorm room and the first words out of his mouth was I was like and I'm what I I had, I couldn't my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think I'll ever be able to forget that. It was super, super shockingly traumatizing. I mean those words and then your parent who was alive. To put them together in reality was just impossible at that very moment and we were going to the airport, to LAX, to the cargo to pick up his body because it was arriving that day. So we went to LAX, picked him up, took him to Gwendolyn Mortuary, the memorial.
Speaker 2:How did you overcome, oh, did you overcome that I?
Speaker 1:mean, is there a way to know if I have? I think I did, I think I did. I do remember him all the time. I do miss him.
Speaker 2:Was he a good dad.
Speaker 1:He was a great dad. I had a very interesting connection with him because growing up as gay, I didn't know that I was gay growing up, but I knew that something was different.
Speaker 1:Really something was different and I was almost very happy and excited to leave Armenia because I felt if I moved to the US I could be straight. It's a new life, new everything. Maybe that change? This is what a 15 year old mind was thinking. You know, in eighth grade I already knew something was up, because I wasn't interested in girls at all, etc. Etc. In eighth grade, in eighth grade at all, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:In eighth grade.
Speaker 1:In eighth grade, even before, but I thought it was normal to be interested in guys. You're a guy. I thought that was normal. But, you know, there's some I don't know. I wasn't sure, but in eighth grade I was like, oh my God, this is not, this, isn't it? This isn't something's really wrong with me.
Speaker 2:Like I have to fix it. Did, did you? Did you really feel that like something's wrong? Oh yeah, oh yeah was it because you weren't really understanding, or you were comparing yourself to other eighth graders like I'm?
Speaker 1:as soon as I started comparing myself with my friends and I realized you know, holy shit, these guys like girls sexually and I'm not into that. What's, how am I going to get married? How am I going to force myself to have sex with the girl? How am I going to have kids? And then I would tell myself, okay, no, it's fine, you'll just push through and have a kid. And then I and I would think to myself push through, have a kid, because I thought that's, because I thought I was the only one on planet earth who was gay.
Speaker 2:That's literally what I thought did you struggle with those thoughts?
Speaker 1:super a lot it was a huge, huge struggle all the way until college. I mean, even for a second, third year in college it was still difficult. For a moment I struggled, as when I was in Armenia, then we came to the US, I thought I could change automatically, miraculously, and then I had a partner. One of my best friends was my first partner. And then the time to tell my family came and I had to tell my family. My brother called me. He's like we know you're gay, we know you're blah, blah blah with this person.
Speaker 1:He said that, come out. So I was like, oh no, okay, I'm gay, but I'm not with anybody so I half lied my way. He was okay, he was fine. My whole family was fine. My mom took it very rationally. I remember when I eventually came out to her a few days after my brother's conversation she said listen, when I was doing stem cell research on rats and our rats were genetically inbred, so they were all the exact copy of the same gene. Even amongst these rats there were rats that were homosexual rats.
Speaker 1:Like the rat would a male rat, would hump another male rat or a female rat, I don't know, and they would have to separate them so that the experiment would be uniform. But she gave me and she said pandas are gay and blah blah blah. So she kind of eased that I was shocked. She said that I was expecting the traditional armenian old style mom reaction oh my god, I'd rather you be a criminal, a marta span, than gay, blah, blah blah. So I had a completely different reaction from her, which which was really, really.
Speaker 2:Was that?
Speaker 1:helpful, super, super. I felt like I had just been born into my skin, so I think my parents' acceptance was just that crucial ingredient that I needed to feel super empowered and just to thrive and be happy. A loving mom, a loving mom, accepting mom mom and my whole family just basically accepted me right away. My aunts they didn't care at all.
Speaker 1:I don't know why it's so weird you don't know why yeah, I mean you would expect some sort of a try to change type of conversation, you know what do you feel about since we're on that topic a lot of there's.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure you know everything that's happening with the schools. You know there's so much trouble. There's a lot of arguments back and forth with parents and schools, and you know we're. I don't want to really dive into that because it's about you today, but what do you feel when people say, when there's a child at you know, eight years old that presents himself to be confused.
Speaker 2:Like I like boys or I like girls, that child should not have their feelings validated. That child should be told it's just a development, you will overcome this. And you know. That child is pushed to see a therapist. Therapist is on the child's side. Therapist says this is just a feeling. Well, we're gonna go because it's you know, we're gonna validate what he feels. But parents are saying no, my child is not gay, he's just confused. How do you, what do you feel? Because that's a lot of that is happening today. A lot of people think that, you know, children should not be able to change their sex. They're confused. People should not. You know children should not be accepted for the way they feel about their. You know their choice of whether they want to be with a man or a or a woman, and it's super complicated and I think that is it's. It's killing today's society because it's division major division.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 1:I mean, this is a very, very complex issue and I think it certainly doesn't have a yes or no or quick, decisive answer. One aspect of the complexity, one facet, is the fact that in our society we are not yet so free-willed and so open-minded and so understanding to accept things. We still drive our dogma, we still drive our rigid ways of thinking. So that's one element, so that's just the one tiny complicator. And, emilio, you have a bunch of other things that's happening. Another thing is that, most recently, gender is another thing that we talk about and to this day, it's difficult for me to understand conceptualized gender, much less now than it was before. And we learn about it in medical school, and we had a gender class in medical school and they teach you, when you become a doctor, how to help someone transition, how to prescribe their hormones and how to do this and how to do that, and UCSF is a leading medical school in the nation with respect to that. My professor was a transgender woman, so she was a man, then became a transgender woman and she was an MD PhD teaching us on how to help transition. And she was an MD PhD teaching us on how to help transition, so she gave us her experience and I remember learning the definitions and being confused.
Speaker 1:What's sexual identity? What's gender identity? You know, I have it down now the fact that I'm gay and I'm open-minded and I'm educated and I don't judge, I try to learn and understand. The fact that it's difficult for me to understand gender issues and where gender leads, makes me believe that the society at large is going to react this way to this issue today. So I think we shouldn't just jump the gun and validate or invalidate, criticize, but rather understand that, because of the breadth and the difficulty of this problem that we have of understanding gender and how to approach people with gender, the only thing we should do is approach them with love and understanding and do our absolute very best to learn about what gender means, gender identity, what sexual identity means, what gay is, what straight is.
Speaker 2:So, as a doctor, how many genders are there? What would you say?
Speaker 1:I think, not as a doctor, but more as a person.
Speaker 1:Okay, as a person, yeah as a person, not as a doctor, but more as a person. Okay, as a person, yeah, as a person, and you know I consider myself extremely sort of intellectually fluid and, um, and that comes from my experience in life I've been proven wrong so many times when I actually thought I was 100, dead on right, and so I think gender probably is very fluid. I think. On one, I think I'm saying I think and you know I welcome your input on this I think that there is on one end of the spectrum, super straight 100.00% heterosexual, a guy into a girl or a girl into a guy, um, a guy into a girl or girl into a guy. And then on the other end is super gay 100.00 homosexual, guy, guy, girl, girl, right, and then there's everything in between.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you look at experimental science and just biology and this was in my biology, high school biology textbook, bio one and bio two, like the first right, and the experiment was by this woman, barbara, something I don't remember her name and she's long passed away and they were talking about corn and the height of the corn plant and how you can have a short corn plant, medium, blah, blah, blah. So there's this gradation of expression of a trait, and sexuality is a trait as well, we know that. And so who's to say that there wouldn't be a gradation of expression of a trait? And sexuality is a trait as well, we know that. And so who's to say that there wouldn't be a gradation in expression of sexuality? And I think that's what gender is expressing gender from hetero to homo and everything in between, and this is why we're now saying gender fluid, and to many that sounds stupid, wishy-washy.
Speaker 2:We don't know For a lot of people. They say it sounds like a disorder.
Speaker 1:A lot of things that are new are initially identified as disorders and then they're identified as oh no, that's just a trait, that's just a feature.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, we pathologize so much. That's normal in our society and that's just the way we square things off to make it palatable for our own minds it's just just how we approach.
Speaker 2:That's how humans palpate life and palpate problems you know, I love having this open conversation with you. You're so comfortable talking about it. But when I do have a conversation about this with other people, they immediately go to you are transphobic.
Speaker 2:You have a phobia. You don't like gay people and it's not like that at all. I just want to make it clear that it's a conversation, and I really appreciate and respect you, but I want to have an open conversation about this. It's an important topic and I think that it's an important topic to talk about in the community too yeah why not?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean thank you, sort of even I appreciate that yeah, you're absolutely welcome. I have no problems expressing my opinion. I'm not hurting offending anyone. If anyone, is offended by the fact that I have an opinion. They're going to be offended by that fact. I'm not offended, that they're offended, so it's all good so going back.
Speaker 2:So tell me a little bit about so. Your family was totally cool with it. Did you ever struggle with friends and other?
Speaker 1:No, so everybody was just fully. Super.
Speaker 2:I love that, so you had a different type of support system.
Speaker 1:Very different type of support system. I think I'm an outlier in terms of that. Coming out gay experience they brought me out. I didn't come out they said we know you're gay.
Speaker 2:How do you?
Speaker 1:think they knew. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I never asked that'll be interesting, but you know what my brother did the day.
Speaker 1:He said we know you're gay, blah, blah, blah. So he takes me to golden beers.
Speaker 2:This, the straightest restaurant, it's like listen, they closed it down in Burbank.
Speaker 1:That one, yes, oh god, their fries were really good their every their beer was phenomenal.
Speaker 2:I don't drink beer.
Speaker 1:It's like aspirin juice it's bitter.
Speaker 2:What do you drink? You're a wine person.
Speaker 1:No man, I don't drink any alcohol.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:I don't like the taste of it, I mean.
Speaker 2:Not even wine.
Speaker 1:I'll sip on Joe's wine If it's like really expensive wine. I want to taste it. My brother is a major wine drinker. I love going to the wine country to just be there, just enjoy it. I'll sip on wine, but I'm not someone to pour myself a glass and drink Really.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I love wine. I'll take recommendations later.
Speaker 1:I should have brought a bottle with me. I didn't think of it.
Speaker 2:No, it's okay. Listen, I wanted to talk to you about the aesthetic world a little bit. Let's get away from the personal stuff. I want to talk about your profession. How did you fall into aesthetics? First? Let's get there. Here's the true story. So we went to med school and then you know.
Speaker 1:Here's the true story. So we got the fact that I got into anesthesia which was, by the way, a very funny way of getting into anesthesia, because in med school, our med school if the deans are watching, why am I looking at the microphone? It's not a screen.
Speaker 2:That's what he used to tell us in Armenia when we were little. Look, look, look, everyone's watching.
Speaker 1:So they screwed up my fourth year schedule and instead of me having and they gave me an ex-orthopedic rotation and that got rid of my break that I was supposed to have for two weeks and so and my anesthesia rotation got scheduled as my absolute last rotation and by then everybody knew what they were going to be doing, when people had already done all their rotations. You know, they knew what they were going to do. I thought that I was never going to know what I'm going to do because I had liked every single thing. We did Peds. I thought I was going to be a pediatrician. We did surgery. I thought I was going to be a surgeon. We did vascular surgery. I thought I was going to be a vascular surgeon Cardiology.
Speaker 1:I was having anxiety already. I was like, okay, well, what am I going to do? I can't do 15 residencies. And I was like, okay, you know what, I'll just do internal medicine. But then that just didn't feel right. You know, it just didn't feel right. And then anesthesia rotation came up. Finally, last rotation, I walked in and my world lit up like these lights that are blinding right here.
Speaker 2:It was like that Kind of like this.
Speaker 1:But times a thousand, and then I knew right away that it was it. I was like in love, in love.
Speaker 2:What was interesting about it?
Speaker 1:Babe, the fact that nobody knows about anesthesia was what was interesting about it.
Speaker 2:There is a high demand. By the way, it's a black box Surgeons.
Speaker 1:work with anesthesiologists.
Speaker 2:You guys are in control. They don't know anything about anesthesia.
Speaker 1:My friends, my friends who are surgeons. They still confuse. They think you can sedate with an LMA in place. You can't like. They don't understand the general versus sedation versus LMA, versus CT tube. To them propofol equals everything you know.
Speaker 1:So it was that it was a black box for me too. And finally I was on the other side of the drapes, because when you lay the patient down the drapes on this side you operate on, the other side is anesthesiologist. It's a big funny machine with a ton of like knobs on it and I wanted to know what these knobs are. It was interesting. And then I I think I I drove my attending that day insane because after four hours she said could you please, please, stop talking, can you please stop asking questions? I promise you 10 minutes, 10 minutes, and then you can talk again literally 10 minutes. I waited and I said it's been 10 minutes, I have more questions and this. That was it. So fast forward.
Speaker 1:I'm an anesthesiologist, now ucla graduating, um, and then um a week after graduation, one of my attendings who was getting her botox done with this plastic surgeon came, came up to me and said listen, this plastic surgeon that does my Botox he's an anesthesiologist got into a car accident. He asked me to cover a case. I said I can't. Can I refer you to cover a case for him? I said sure, why not? So she refers me, I go in. We do one, two, three boobs and one rhinoplasty. That day I started at 930. We were done by 6. I made four times the money that I was making at UCLA for working. That Not even I mean. Even if I work. If UCLA paid me by the hour which they did, that many hours, I wouldn't make nearly as much.
Speaker 2:How much do anesthesiologists make an hour?
Speaker 1:Right now I don't know, but it's probably Probably, yeah, Probably. I love that Just had to With, like sign-on bonuses and Wow. Yeah, and it's on average $700 an hour I mean, or $600. I don't know Depends, but around about that amount and you do other things and it ups your hourly. If you put an arterial line, you'll make more money. If you do ultrasound guided nerve block, you add more money to that. You do pain management and there's more. And then there's the recovery, et cetera. It depends. It depends.
Speaker 2:Did you do epidurals?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course that's pretty intense Epidurals.
Speaker 2:Yes, they're cool. Oh, my God, sirok, they are. But it's important how you do it, and it matters because I have horrible experience.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:With Noah never worked At all Like three times Jesus Christ With Nazany. I had her at Santa Monica. Uh-huh, my God.
Speaker 1:That should be a great place. It was wonderful. That's why I did my initial training for that.
Speaker 2:He was phenomenal, but he said that it didn't work the first time, probably because he was like he had to go pretty deep oh, okay, okay, okay yeah, and I was like you know, but it it worked. The guy knew what he was doing, so I think that who was it um? I probably know him my doctor was dr nishio. Angela nishio, shout out to her. She's a phenomenal doctor. Uh, the anesthesiologist? I don't know. I'll find out, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:I know all of them because that's where we're doing my regional training for anesthesia.
Speaker 2:I'll find out. I'll find out. Great, doctor, I mean I I say that because you guys aren't, you really are in control of the operating room what's gonna happen if the, the patient, the dosage is what? Low, high, right like wake?
Speaker 1:up, everyone will freak out, everybody, correct, so it will happen yeah awesome, okay, cool.
Speaker 2:Just wanted to share my epi experience yeah okay, and then so you did.
Speaker 1:You did the breast surgeries and I did the breast surgeries, did the rhino pre-op my patients you know, high top academic, ucla style. I was all into it. I'm a dork to the core. You know I'm a dork. I'm part of me and then the other part is just this unruly child you know so. I have to marry a Tasmanian devil with like a well put together human being you know, and that's been the struggle of my life, to be honest with you really yeah, it's hard to put two different personalities into one and be presentable and be functional persona and be functional I mean that's why?
Speaker 2:well, I think that we do need different personas to survive in the world, probably, but it is, it's hard. Yeah, this is turning into a therapy session.
Speaker 1:I did no, no, no it's cool, it's cool, yeah, so that's yeah, so that's it. So we did that case and then I went home and then I post-op my patients Apparently, his anesthesiologist hadn't been post-oping the patients. I post-op the patient. I texted the surgeon blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about this patient. She's doing well, no nausea, pain management, wound looks, and he's like what you did all that. I was like what do you mean? I thought that's what every anesthesiologist should do, because, coming out of ucla, that's what we always did. We pre-op all of our patients. We called our attendings the night before, talked about the pre-op plan, talked about our anesthesia plan. Some of some of the attendings were chill, nice, some were, you know, retentive to the max. Love dr miller. He's my favorite. Really, he would make you sweat and that's how I learned Challenge, challenge to the max.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Loved him. I learned so much I learned from challenging experiences, you know and he loved it. He said can you come back and do another case? And I did. And then he said why don't you join this I'm not going to name the hospitals, just in case this is something he shouldn't have told me why don't you join this hospital's anesthesia group? Because that's where I get my anesthesiologists from. And I said let me go and think about it, because it's such a new thing coming out of UCLA academia. You don't know anything about private practice at all.
Speaker 1:You think $200 an hour is going to be the best salary for the rest of your life. And then you're like wait, what is happening? Why are they paying me so little? And I'm working insane hours, insane, insane hours. Called my brother. I told him what's going on. He said listen, why don't you tell him to exclusively work with you and not contract with the other hospital? Okay, but then in this case I would have to leave my ucla job. And so I did that, I. When I said why don't you do this blah blah, he said okay, I will do that. So I ramped down my schedule at ucla, got told a quitter, a traitor, you're selling your soul, um they were angry they were very angry and then um worked with them exclusively, became the director of anesthesia for his entire surgery center.
Speaker 1:A lot of the surgeries that were done for the channel e botched were done there and I know the surgeons and you know that's how I got into aesthetics, because this guy has a huge surgery center you know not a surgical associates and like people operate there.
Speaker 1:He operates there, other surgeons operate there. It's like a top notch, high quality, big, large OR with camera, camera, space for cameras, space for flights and all that stuff. Bunch of people, yeah. And you know, over time, a couple of years into working as an anesthesiologist there, he said listen, you have a really good eye, why don't you inject?
Speaker 2:You do have a great eye, by the way, you guys. He walked into the office, he saw the sign. He's like this sign is three millimeters. I mean how?
Speaker 1:I don't know and I didn't know. I had a good eye. I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't even know what that meant he would operate and I would look through the drapes because you have nothing to do but chit-chat with the surgeon, Because in private practice things go much more smoothly with anesthetics.
Speaker 1:They're healthier patients. It's not a liver transplant. They're not very sick, their hearts are working okay. So you just bond with the people you work with for eight hours a day. And you know, I started pointing things out and he's like oh, oh, oh. And then he would start asking for my opinion. He's like do you think this or do you think that? And then he said why don't you start injecting? I was like no, I'm an anesthesiologist, I'm a doctor, I'm not going to inject. Mind you, I knew nothing about injectables at that point.
Speaker 2:How long ago was this?
Speaker 1:This was jesus christ, probably 2013 and 14, long time ago, long, long time ago, yes. And I was like what? Inject? No, no. And then he's like listen, we surgeons, we don't like injecting. We would love for you to take up, take our clients. And so I did my first lip filler. Soon after that conversation, he taught me how to do it and I started paying attention during surgeries, because now I and I did my first lip filler. It was so exciting. I actually made change on someone's lips and it looked phenomenal. The client loved it, I loved it. I was like wait, we could put a needle in and then change the shape of something, and it looks so good.
Speaker 2:This is in 2013 15 14 ish, yeah, 13, 14.
Speaker 1:And I just got into it. I started just treating every surgery like an open dissection course. You know, people pay, they go get dissection training for eight hours once in their career. This was daily for me and so I would look through and I'm like and I would ask where is that nerve? Let me see the nerve. Where is the artery? Is it really deep? Is it under this layer? Is it under that layer? I would put on a glove and put my hand in and check to see and you know feel where it is. So it was live in front of that's. This is how I learned.
Speaker 1:And then I would look at facelifts of clients who had had procedures done prior to getting their facelifts and fillers done and work done. That gave me an incredible sense of what happens in the aesthetic room and how that looks like in the operating room and what the surgeon is feeling and going through doing someone's facelift who has had certain types of procedures done. This has fundamentally shaped who I am as an injector, because it's an experience that I couldn't have gone any other way. I just got lucky that I fell into this group of surgeons practice who loved me and who wanted to teach me, and so I learned everything about the eye from Parsa. I learned everything about the nose and the face from Fadi. I learned more stuff from Chopra, from Orden and from this and that, so everybody just taught me and taught me, and taught me. And we had a transgender surgeon as well in the operating room, and so that was really cool. I did all the transgender cases.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, we had a very active transgender surgical program there.
Speaker 2:How was that?
Speaker 1:Very interesting, very, very interesting. We did mostly top surgeries Women becoming men or men becoming women. Looks-wise, we didn't do any bottom surgeries penis, vagina that's much more complicated. It requires in the hospital or a surgery center that would care for them beyond the surgery time. You can't just ship them off to a recovery center at the SLS Hotel, like we do a lot of our plastic surgery clients. These patients have to be monitored. There's a lot of stuff. Plastic surgery clients these patients have to be monitored.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of stuff going on, I bet, yeah, I bet, yeah. Are you happy where you are now? Very happy you make a lot of women look phenomenal and men and men.
Speaker 1:That's right. I have a lot of male clients.
Speaker 2:That's right you do. I see it on your instagram. A lot of males come for like Sculptra. You were doing Sculptra Botox. I think it should be the favorite choice going forward no why not let them take care of themselves?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why not? Why not? It's like cutting your hair, clipping your nails and doing your eyebrows. I look at aesthetic that way within limits.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because you also see that being pushed out of limits right, and I see your nostrils flaring up.
Speaker 2:Because my team is saying I should stay away from topics like that, but I'm just going to you know you can't. It's like it's something that is close to your heart. I just want to be very authentic. I feel like a lot of aesthetic doctors are failing the people out there. I mean people. Yes, you might have somebody that is struggling with body dysmorphia, as we've seen a lot of people. You know they're just over the top, but why are these doctors doing that to them?
Speaker 1:I mean greed.
Speaker 2:It's. I think it goes beyond that.
Speaker 1:And what do you think it is?
Speaker 2:I think it's criminal.
Speaker 1:Could I mean listen? It could be because you have a weapon in your hands. It's the syringe and the needle and a filler, and if your client doesn't know when to stop, you should know when to stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's criminal. I mean, you have women, my microphone cheeks this big. We've seen those on instagram. A lot of people. I've seen so many iranian women in iran do this. I mean, there's just an instagram page dedicated to them. Lips, hueips, humongous cheekbones. This is criminal. These people don't understand what they're doing. There's something wrong. Why are you validating that? Why are you making them look like this?
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell you something shocking. So many of these patients who look like they've been, I don't want to to say I don't like the word botched because it's just so cruel. I have a very soft spot for humans and anything I mean, but the reality is reality.
Speaker 2:It's okay to be logical maimed almost like they're.
Speaker 1:You know, I so many of these people. When they some of them, you know one way or roundabout ways, they end up in my chair right, and when you explain to them what's going on with their face and how to kind of come back from it, how more filler, is a big no-no. That I'm not going to, and I say this to a lot of my clients. I am not going to put more filler in your face.
Speaker 2:They ask for it. They do.
Speaker 1:I love that, and so when you, explain this to them and how what's been happening is super outside of standard of care. A lot of them understand and it actually resonates with them, believe it or not, and they will tell me sometimes, you know, these last four years I knew I'm not looking right. And this happens after I dissolve their face, I dissolve the lip fillers and I bring it back to shape. I have them wait months and months. You can't just dissolve and re-inject, you shouldn't.
Speaker 1:That skin that had been stretched goes through so much biological torture and rape, trauma, trauma. It needs to bounce back. And sometimes you have to work on the skin first before you can address volume issues in the face. And so when I start to work with them and I'm dissolving their face, dissolving their fillers, one step at a time, very often, most of the time, 99% of the time they turn around and they say Very often, most of the time, 99% of the time they turn around and they say I had no idea that what was not looking right wasn't that I needed more filler, it was because I was adding more filler.
Speaker 1:And they are never told that they're never told that.
Speaker 2:That's the criminal part. I think, yeah, it is criminal, it's unjust I'm sorry there is no other word for that, but criminal. It's sad, it's unjust I'm sorry it's there's no other word for that but criminal. It's sad, it's very sad. And what I love about you you are and I'm going to be genuine you are so authentic and you're so honest when you have a person in that chair and I've.
Speaker 2:You know, I have done work on my forehead and I've had Botox done before I met you. But there have been injectors that will sell procedures to you that you don't really need and you know you don't need it and you see why they're doing that. But this is what I love about you you will never do that. I've been to you so many times. You'll be like no, you don't need this, no, you don't need that, and that is important. That's called being a good doctor, that's called being a good human, where you see the person You're like you know what? Maybe that you think you need that, but I'm looking at it from a different eye, a different perspective. I don't think you need that, but I'm looking at it from a different eye, a different perspective. I don't think you need that.
Speaker 1:That's that's really important and I love that about you. I can't go home and go to bed and feel good about there is something I have to feel like I'm a good human in order for me to be able to keep going. I hyper empathetic, maybe I don't know. Like I can't, I won't feel good. There's karma out there.
Speaker 2:Yes, you have to treat humans like they're lovable and loving and yeah, and and part of being a good human is maybe calling out what they're seeing, like they think, for instance, like if I, if I come to you and I tell you, you know, make my lips bigger, a month later I want it bigger and bigger and you're seeing it, something's off, you're a part of being a good human is telling that person, questioning their reality. I don't think that this is right. What's really going on here? That's also called being a good human. You can't always validate just because you want to be kind like this. Be kind thing is a little too much already.
Speaker 1:You have to be real and authentic yeah, and I think part of it is also being able to practice the art of medicine. Um, there's a science of medicine your, your technique and your vigor to learn the anatomy and keep up with what's coming up in the scientific literature about aesthetics. There's so much science in aesthetics. There is, there's huge amounts of science. I didn't even know about it. As an anesthesiologist working with plastic surgeons, I didn't know that there was so much science in aesthetics.
Speaker 2:And it's continuing to change. Correct 100%, Expand Constantly, all the time. So you have to educate yourself.
Speaker 1:You have to educate yourself with all the procedures, all the products, everything that you do, one and two. The art of practicing medicine is knowing how to spot the patient that may be crossing the lines early on, so you can establish a report and so you can actually establish a line of communication that you can then rely on to go to and and put put a stop to a certain thing that needs to be stopped, because when you don't do that and you jump the gun and suddenly say you know what? No, you're not having your lips done. But up until that point you were just nicely just doing everything the client asked you to do and then suddenly you explode as a professional. You're like okay, this is not right. If you do, unless you don't, then you just keep injecting. But knowing how to kind of I don't know forged our relationship with the client is super important very important to make the person.
Speaker 2:every time I'm on that, you make me feel so comfortable, and am I paranoid?
Speaker 1:Paranoid.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know you're going to be nice, not to your detriment.
Speaker 1:No, why would I be nice. You've asked so many personal questions at this point. You're going to be in a hot chair in 2.3 seconds. No, no, no, you're not paranoid to your detriment. You're just very well learned and you're very informed, and that may be mistaken for being paranoid, but it's not. You're being careful and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2:I am.
Speaker 1:I love having you as my client.
Speaker 2:Okay, I do see doctors for all my beauty needs, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about where you work.
Speaker 1:You guys recently changed a name the way we did. We're now called savant aesthetics and um it used to be called crmc. We're the biggest med spa on the west coast we are a huge, you are, it's a big operation beautiful clinic, by the way.
Speaker 1:Gorgeous place, Very. We have everything that there exists under the sun that works. We don't have things that don't work. We've played and dabbled with things that were trendy, like, I don't know, stem cells in aesthetics or exosomes in aesthetics, etc. We've spent lots of money buying different brands of stem cells, brands of exosomes, try to see if this works, what doesn't work, etc. We've spent lots of money buying different brands of stem cells, brands of exosomes. Try to see if this works, what doesn't work, etc. If something works, we have it. This is what I tell my clients If it doesn't work, we don't have it. If we don't have it, that means it doesn't work or it's not FDA approved or it's way too dangerous.
Speaker 2:Right, I love that. Why did you guys change the name?
Speaker 1:We are rebranding and expanding and I think a lot of our clients were having trouble pronouncing CRMC, so you would hear things like CMR, crm, ccrc. So we're like we don't want that anymore, and so our branding team came up with Zavant. We fell in love with the name. Who came up with that? Some?
Speaker 2:girl, our branding team came out with Zavant.
Speaker 1:We fell in love with the name who came up with that some girl so I was.
Speaker 2:You did my Botox a few weeks ago. I was there and then I asked who came up with the name Zavant? And they're like we don't know. And I was having a conversation with the receptionist. I'm like this sounds like idiot Zavant it's a combination and they had no idea. Excuse me, I said no, no, it's, it's. It's a word you use on people who are just you know, savant, yeah, and I said is that, is that what it is?
Speaker 2:and they said we actually don't know, and I was waiting for you to tell me, but I didn't get a chance. You had another patient, so is that where you got the?
Speaker 1:yeah, the savant See.
Speaker 2:I figured that out. I put the puzzles together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a combination of savant and sara.
Speaker 2:Savant Siroc.
Speaker 1:No, there's no Siroc in there. If it was Siroc, it would be savant, there's no, me, no, you, no, you.
Speaker 1:are you ever gonna open up your own? No, why, probably not. I don't want to, I don't need to. This is like my own. Yeah, it is actually. Yeah, this is like my own, you know it is. Uh. Crmc opened their doors for me with huge, open arms. They gave me the entire playground to play with. They gave me an incredible deal. To begin as a beginning injector, I had a small aesthetic injectable practice at the surgery center already, so I was doing surgeries and then after surgeries I would do my injectables, finish at 8 pm, really tired, go home. And then COVID happened and we didn't do surgeries for a while, but then the injectable business kept going and that's when I was like OK, well, I need to figure out, do I want to continue with anesthesia? I had so many questions, being a dork, being OCD, being a perfectionist. I had so many questions.
Speaker 2:You are a perfectionist. I am being a dork, being ocd, being a perfectionist. I have so many questions. You are a perfectionist, I am. It's. I've seen the work you do like especially I'm you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are. You're very meticulous when it comes to you but that.
Speaker 2:But then you have to be that's.
Speaker 1:That's why you don't have it's problematic most of my fights with joe are because of that. You know, 90, 98 of our fights have to do with the kitchen. Really they do and I know that you love to cook. I do, I do it's not relationship problems, it's not thank god did this or no, it's literally. Everything stems out of me being ocd, me being a perfectionist, and don't use this spoon when you're mixing it this way. This is not the right spoon for that. Please be that way forever.
Speaker 2:Because you're working on me.
Speaker 1:Joe's going to be like are you serious At work? I'm OCD, a perfectionist. The girls know this. I mean, they know this. They know I want my things my way. This is how I function, but that's what makes you you and how I.
Speaker 2:This is how I function, but that's what makes you you and that's what makes you so wonderful at what you do. That's why you know well, look at your work it's perfect, thank you, thank you, thank you, you're welcome thank you. I think this was so beautiful, meaningful. I had a lot of fun. I can talk to you for hours, but I think our camera.
Speaker 1:Where is it? Is it here? He's there. He left.
Speaker 2:It's midnight yeah, the guys it's late, but thank you so much thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:It's my first podcast. Did you have a?
Speaker 2:good conversation with me. 100%. Did you feel comfortable? Absolutely and safe 100% great well, have a good night and I'll see you in what I'm due for a Morpheus.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:In two weeks, I think Morpheus in two weeks, so I'll see you at your chair.
Speaker 1:I'll take good care of you. Hands, hands, what do we?
Speaker 2:do Shake? Is this a thing? Yes, I always do with my guests. Okay, awesome, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me.