Sona Avetisyan | Decluttering, Minimalism, Intentional Living | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #13

Have you ever looked around at a sea of possessions and felt overwhelmed by the clutter? My candid conversation with Sona Avetisyan, a master of minimalism and decluttering, challenges the notion that more stuff equals more happiness. We unravel the life-changing magic of freeing up space, time, and energy by simplifying our lives, particularly for those of us juggling the joys and chaos of motherhood. Together, we expose the mental toll of a cluttered home and offer actionable advice for those taking their first steps toward a more intentional existence.

Imagine swapping a sprawling five-bedroom for a cozy studio apartment with a view - that's precisely what I did. During this heartfelt episode, the transformative journey unfolds, revealing how downsizing can amplify happiness, lessen anxiety, and foster a stronger connection with loved ones. Sona and I delve into the societal pressures that push us towards consumerism and how we can find acceptance and peace in a life rich with experiences rather than things.

Ending the day by celebrating small wins isn't just uplifting; it's a practice that can change the course of our lives. This episode doesn't shy away from tough topics like navigating grief or recognizing the sacrifices made by our parents. We discuss the importance of self-care, especially for mothers, and the gentle art of teaching our children to value encouragement over criticism. Join us for an episode that promises to inspire, comfort, and motivate you towards a life of joy, simplicity, and intentional living.

Transcript

EDIT: 0:00

Somebody might tell you the same thing 10 times, and it just comes from this year. It goes out and then one day it clicks. It's like, oh, because you're ready for that.

SONA: 0:08

Shoes, clothes. Once you minimize, it really allows you to live more liberated.

EDIT: 0:15

Just have a reminder every hour once it rings. Just write down what you wrote. You will be so surprised to analyze that data at the end of the week, where your time actually goes.

SONA: 0:27

It's not always about food and a clean home. It's mental. Mental cleanness Up here has to be healthy right.

EDIT: 0:35

We think that once we have this or once we achieve that, once this happens, then we'll be happy. It's actually the other way around when you're happy, all those things start to happen when you're choosing a partner.

SONA: 0:51

Also make sure that they have equivalent pain, not greater, so that you can work with that, because what happens when you are with someone with greater pain? It's like so much anger, resentment. It's kind of like hard to work around it. Hello everyone, thank you for joining me for today's episode.

SONA: 1:21

Today's episode was very interesting. She is somebody who is starting to help lots of families organize and get their life together. I'm talking about Sona Avedisian. Sona Avedisian is a professional organizer in the Los Angeles area. I'm going to link all her information so you guys could get your hands on her Instagram and her style of work.

SONA: 1:43

But today's conversation was incredibly meaningful because we dived into decluttering and living a more minimalistic life and how that can really help mothers with time and their anxiety, and there's actually a lot of studies linked to how decluttering really helps soothe the mind and soothe the heart. So we delved a lot into about organization and decluttering and living a more minimalistic life, which allows you to have more time with your kids and your family, and which I think everybody's complaining about today. I don't have time to see you, I don't have time to call you, and she actually links that with organization to see you I don't have time to call you and she actually links that with organization. It was quite interesting to see her study and her research on how living a minimal life provides more time. Enjoy this episode with Sona Abedisian. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel and, yeah, enjoy. This was one heck of an episode, you guys. All right, sona, how are you? I'm great.

EDIT: 2:46

How are you?

SONA: 2:47

Good. Thank you so much for joining me today.

EDIT: 2:49

It's my pleasure.

SONA: 2:50

Absolutely. I appreciate you, you know, taking the time to come and accepting my invitation. We connected through Instagram, so I think it's the first time that you and I are in presence together. Why don't you? I mean, is it okay if you tell me a little bit about yourself and then I'll tell you about myself.

EDIT: 3:09

Of course I am a professional organizer and a decluttering coach. My life's purpose is to help especially busy moms, and organizing has always been something that has kind of been very natural to me and comes easily. And when I decided to start a business it was a no brainer that it would be in this area. And it's very fulfilling because I get to give moms who have such a full plate so much more time, energy and space. So it's very fulfilling.

SONA: 3:48

I bet it is. Do you have like a lot of clients that need that space, that decluttering? Is it a lot in the world right now?

EDIT: 3:56

Yeah, I feel like, especially after Marie Kondo's show and the home edit on Netflix, and it has become more widely known that there are people who can help you with this kind of problems. But I feel like, especially in the last 10, 20 years, with consumerism you know, getting more, what do you call it present and also during COVID, a lot of people started shopping as well. People have accumulated so much stuff.

SONA: 4:32

Wow that's a good point.

EDIT: 4:34

Yeah, now they don't know what to do with it. A lot of people feel like their homes are small. They want to move into a bigger home, but that is not the solution and that is not the problem. The problem is not the space, it's that they have way too many items at home that are not serving them.

SONA: 4:53

So yeah, you have this philosophy be minimalistic right. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why it's so important in today's world?

EDIT: 5:03

Yeah. So a lot of people have the wrong idea about what minimalism really means. They think it's lack of ambition or being satisfied with less. It's actually not, in my opinion. It's more about intentional living. It's about quality over quantity. I haven't always been a minimalist. I have become a minimalist to live a life that is more aligned with my values. So if you want to hear my story, I would love to.

SONA: 5:32

I think we all would love to yes.

EDIT: 5:35

So I was married for 17 years and when my husband and I got married years. And when my husband and I got married, we wanted a beautiful, big house to entertain our friends and, you know, to make beautiful memories. And after years of, you know, gathering money, working really hard, we were able to do that. We finally bought our dream house, which was it had five bedrooms, a huge backyard and. But soon I realized that I had been so much happier living in the two bedroom we had before that than here, because our days were full, like more rooms come with more decisions, maintenance, all of that.

EDIT: 6:29

And like I was starting to get anxious. Like, okay, we have this room, how do we design it? And then you know I've always been a very conscious mom and it was affecting that part is like, do I spend the time with my kids or do I design the room? And then, once you design it and you make it beautiful, and then the kids. You know, if you have kids, they always make messes everywhere.

EDIT: 6:52

By the time you finish cleaning one room, the next room gets out of control and with kids, you buy more things, because whether it's books or toys like I, was always into the books, but the more you buy, the more choices there are, the more time goes into that. So after our divorce, when we were making a decision about who was going to live, where I said that I wanted to move into a smaller space, I actually moved into a studio at the beach with my two kids, oh my goodness. And the reason was I knew what a big change we were going to go through and I wanted to emotionally be there for my kids to really be present. And I couldn't do that if I lived in a big space where I had to maintain. I just wanted to be able to quickly clean it up and just spend the time with them.

SONA: 7:57

So instead of the responsibility of chores and cleaning and constantly going through the chores position, you chose a smaller space which ultimately articulates into time with your kids. Yes, that is so beautiful. Wow, so smart.

EDIT: 8:16

And I think that has helped me so much being able to help my clients more. Because I have lived in a big space, I know the organizing and decluttering struggles that come with a bigger space and I have lived in a super small space so I know what the struggles are when you're living in a smaller space. So it's never a one size fits all solution Like I am better suited to help them with their individual needs better suited to help them with their individual needs. But when I started living in this tiny apartment, it was actually as hard as it was to go through divorce after, you know, being married for so long, and it was actually probably the happiest year otherwise for me and my kids because we were spending so much time together. It also like this is also when I started my business because I wanted flexibility to be there for them and it gave us a chance to really connect on a deeper level, spend a lot of time doing the things that matter to us. So basically, what I did was, instead of just letting things choose me, I became very intentional about how do I want to live my life.

EDIT: 9:35

What are the most important things for me? Number one conscious parenting. Number two health, because I've lost both my parents very young and it's very important for me and fun is very important for me and people. So I was like, how can I make sure to have all of these things? And I designed a life around that. So when I was designing my space, I made sure there was a place for us together. When I was incorporating, you know, fun into our lives, I chose the city that was going to allow me to do the things we like, like paddleboarding and surfing, skateboarding all of those things Also for health and so I designed my life around it. And having fewer things actually gives me the time and the energy and the money to be really intentional with spending all of those resources on things that matter to me is that you don't let me put this a little bit closer you don't need much.

SONA: 10:37

You don't need much like something small you did, and that's to minimize things in your life, like I don't know whether it's, let's just make it super superficial shoes, clothes. Once you minimize, it really allows you to live more liberated. That's like so powerful because we think that time it's about time, like we don't value time, but also we have a lot of complaints that we don't have time, but then it's all about downsizing. So how do you get people to get to that acceptance? Because right now, especially in LA, especially in different communities, everybody is all about that designer. Everybody is all about bigger things, like lots of shoes, lots of bags. I don't know bigger house, sona. How does somebody get to that point where they can't be accepting of a minimalist life?

EDIT: 11:54

As you said, a lot of like people want that bigger house, bigger home. But also if you've noticed like depression and anxiety has gone up like crazy. Also, if you've noticed like depression and anxiety has gone up like crazy.

EDIT: 12:05

And that is one of the reasons that we think we don't have time for this and that. But if you, I bet, if you do this exercise for just a week, anyone can do this. Sure, just from the morning you wake up to the time you go to sleep, just start writing down like what you did in the last hour, and then just have a reminder every hour once it rings, just write down what you wrote. You will be so surprised to analyze that data at the end of the week where your time actually goes.

EDIT: 12:40

And that is one of the biggest like aha moments or like live by moments for a lot of people, when they realize, oh my God, like I spent so much time on this. I had no idea. So then, when you become a little bit intentional and mindful about how you spend your time, you realize that you really do have time. It's how you choose to spend it and also getting rid of a lot of stuff from your home, from your life, that doesn't serve you whether it's in your physical surroundings or in your schedule or even in your friendships that allows more time for things that you actually want to do. When was the last time people asked themselves what really makes me happy. They just go with whatever they see, whether it's on Instagram or anywhere else, and they start thinking, oh, once I have this, then I'll be happy, once I have this kitchen or this bag or this kind of a relationship, then I'll be happy.

SONA: 13:43

That's how poor we are.

EDIT: 13:45

Yeah, if we start really thinking, and this is something that I, it's poverty.

SONA: 13:50

It's mental poverty that in order to get that Hermes bag, that Gucci belt or whatever, I'm fulfilled. Yeah, but that's you might have the same belt in seven different designers You're still not content. You still have that anxiety. It's such a temporary relief, like buying something and I'm sure you have a lot of your clients say this like buying that extra shoes. It just makes me feel so good, but it's like a five minute relief and then the next day you're back to your anxiety and depression.

SONA: 14:21

It's mental poverty, so that's a really good point. I then the next day you're back to your anxiety and depression. It's mental poverty.

EDIT: 14:26

So that's a really good point. I think the first time I became really conscious of that was when my daughters were younger and they would break something a toy or whatever and then they would be like, oh well, we can get another one. Or they weren't very careless about their things, or they would get this and that and they never felt satisfied. And then I would get triggered. I was like, do you understand? Like as a kid I had only one toy and I knew every single detail on that toy.

EDIT: 15:00

Do you know how lucky you are? And then I'll. And then it made me think I remember my mom had just bought me these shoes as a kid and we went to buy it together and I woke up at night at least three times to just go look at it because I was so excited that I was going to wear it to school the next day and I just couldn't wait for it. I was like I want my kid to feel this kind of an excitement when she gets things. Not you know.

SONA: 15:31

Yeah.

EDIT: 15:32

And then I was like, oh, this is because it was. I had to wait a long time for this. It was not like so much that it just seems like, and I wanted them to feel that and I just didn't know how to do it. So now, whenever um, I don't just buy them, whatever like we're very mindless in our shopping. So when we do buy, there are questions that we ask ourselves what?

EDIT: 16:00

are those questions, um, for example, uh, like, if I'm buying something for myself, like before I would just go and wear something and I would be like, oh, this is cute, I bet it will look cute if I do this or that, and then I would just buy it, yeah. And now I don't do that anymore. If I wear something and it's not instantly oh my God, this is so beautiful. Like where have you been all my life? Like I will not buy it because anything that's a maybe or it's just cute, you're just end up adding it to your closet and never wearing it, because we, 80% of the time, we wear 20% of our clothes. We always turn to our favorites. And that's the question. Like, if you?

EDIT: 16:49

let's say if you have something that you're trying to see if you should get rid of or not, you wear it. You're like, oh, this is so beautiful, it looks amazing, it's good quality. You know I should wear this, but you realize you've had that for a year and you haven't worn it. That's because you don't have time to wear that. When you do have the occasion, you always pick the one other skirt that you like more than that one.

SONA: 17:16

That is so true and we always complain we don't have anything to Exactly.

EDIT: 17:21

Men too, we always turn to our favorites. So now whatever I have in my home is all of my favorite things. Only Anything else is gone, like right now. If I close my eyes, I can tell you what drawer has what things in my entire home.

SONA: 17:38

That's how minimal you've. Yeah, I've become that's beautiful.

EDIT: 17:41

Yeah, and that was a journey. It wasn't a one day thing, and I'm not recommending that everybody live this kind of a lifestyle. I'm just saying it's possible to, little by little, become very mindful about what you're keeping in your life. Why do you think that's important? Because it gives you more time. It gives you more energy. More time, it gives you more energy. Have you ever noticed you're a mom, right, yes, yeah. Have you noticed how loaded your mental space is, even if you, I'm going to visualize that.

EDIT: 18:19

Yeah, it's like I have to go this and then after the podcast, I have to pick up my daughter, my son, and it's like, yes, the mental load is never ending. Yes, and even like I live a minimalistic life, I still have the mental load because I'm a mom and I'm a woman and it's just how we're built. But the more things you have both in your surroundings and in your schedule, the more loaded that mental space is, and it's just that's what starts causing anxiety and inability. A lot of women are so overwhelmed that they just sometimes they have closets that they just close and they don't open it anymore because it's too much.

SONA: 18:57

So, Sona, what I'm hearing you say is that items contribute anxiety and depression. Is that correct?

EDIT: 19:05

They do First of all in our space when there's just too much stuff. I'm sure everybody has felt this. When you organize even one little drawer, the pleasure you feel when you open it.

EDIT: 19:20

Or if your space, if you're sitting to work and it's like cluttered with all kinds of paperwork, it's so much harder to concentrate and once you get rid of it, it's just instantly easier. If you just go on Google and just search, for you know clutter and clutter's effect on anxiety, you will come with so many different articles, both peer-reviewed articles and journals as well as blogs or anything like that.

EDIT: 19:49

But you don't even need to do that to know how you're affected when things are cluttered in your area versus organized. So imagine, and one thing that people forget is yes, we make some big decisions every day, but we make thousands of micro decisions every day as well, and the more things you have around your home, the more those are. Maybe you're not even conscious of it, but I was going to say yeah, the little thing you see is like, oh, I have to take care of that, or like it's not even. It's constantly working in your brain in the background.

EDIT: 20:27

In the unconscious part.

SONA: 20:28

Yeah.

EDIT: 20:28

Yeah, just like you know how on the internet, you have too many tabs and it's just slower. All those little things, all those little thoughts about your items, they're constantly in the background and they slow you down. And sometimes, when people are thinking, oh, how much do people charge for organizing, oh, that's expensive, or whatever they're not thinking in terms of what is it costing them to live in a place that is cluttered? It's affecting their job, it's affecting their relationship, it's affecting their health. All that is not only time, energy, it's money as well. So same thing with items. When you're trying to think, oh, this item is great, I might use it one day, why should I get rid of it? I should keep it.

EDIT: 21:17

If you're thinking about the item in isolation, that's why it's hard to get rid of it, because you're thinking of this as money. But if you're thinking of what it is costing you, then it's a different story. And what is it costing you really? Okay, imagine going through your entire home and taking every little item that you don't use and put them all together. Can you see the big pile that you will create and all that can be free space that you can actually use for things that you do use. Imagine how much easier it will be to get access to it, to open the drawer, to tell your partner and kids where everything goes, instead of having all of that piled up because somewhere in a different place you're keeping something that you're not using.

SONA: 22:11

I've noticed that a lot of maybe baby bloomers or maybe the silent generation which are our grandparents they tend to have maybe more than one fridge in the house or there's just stacks and stacks of like spaghetti and rice and canned food and it's just so much. When you open that pantry you're just so naturally overwhelmed, like I know, my mom does this.

SONA: 22:39

I know a lot of people's mothers and mother-in-laws do this. Do you think that that has a lot to do with, maybe, trauma? A lot of collecting of items, even shopping excessively, is trauma related.

EDIT: 22:54

Absolutely, it's almost in our DNA. I have a lot of different clients from different cultures, but I have noticed that cultures that have experienced some kind of either war, famine, genocide are more likely to first of all be neat freaks. Surprisingly, because that gives them a sense of control, Like they didn't have control over how the world, what was happening in the world, but they had control over their homes. So they would just be very OCD about their surroundings yeah, family and stuff or clothes, Like during the times when people lived in times when it was harder to get things or when they were poor it was very hard to get items. So they still live with that mentality that, oh, like, if I need an item, it's going to be hard to get it. But our society has changed so much. Everything is literally a click away, Anything that you want. But then they will keep like a $20 item because they might use it again in two years. It is costing them so much more. You know, health, relationship, money, all of that.

SONA: 24:21

How do you help someone like that? I mean, have you had people who? I guess? The question is can you help people like that?

EDIT: 24:27

Okay, so there are people who have a hoarding disorder.

SONA: 24:32

Yes, that's what I'm getting at.

EDIT: 24:33

And I'm like this is I'm talking about the diagnosed you have the hoarding disorder. I can help somebody like that. They need professional help yeah. And then, once they're with a professional, I can help them with organizing and stuff like that, right, so it's much deeper. Yes, but there are a lot of people who call themselves hoarders because they hold on to things and a lot of people who are not hoarders. They're pretty organized but still have a hard time getting rid of things.

EDIT: 25:02

So I actually have a degree from UCLA in sociology and psychology and I've also been very intuitive my whole life and I can feel what my client needs to think about to be able to get rid of something that doesn't serve them. So the questions I ask them helps them figure out. In the beginning, when I first step in, they're like, oh my God, are you going to let me get rid of this or I'll ask questions? And they're like I know what you're going to say. I'm like I'm not going to say anything.

EDIT: 25:40

All of these questions that I'm going to ask you are for me to figure out what's been working for you, what hasn't been working for you and how I can help you. And once we establish that trust and also like I've gone through so much that I'm very empathetic and not judgmental and they can feel that so they open up more and this allows me to help them better. So once we start talking and stuff and I start asking the questions, they realize they really don't need that and before long, like they're the ones who are like I don't want this, I don't need that. Oh yeah, I can do this, instead of this one, I can use something else. And like it has always been such a surprise because there's a certain moment that it finally like clicks for them and they get so fast in getting rid of things. I love that moment.

EDIT: 26:36

It just it gives me life. But sometimes even I might say you know what I actually think, like, like I saw your face when you were talking about this item. I don't think you should get rid of it. It's really adding value to your life, the way you lit up when you were talking about it. I think, and that's the thing, you don't need to get rid of everything. It's not about getting rid of things. It's about becoming mindful about what you're keeping, what you have, what you have, because if you surround yourself with things that add value to your life, add a good mood and, you know, help your creativity, being a better mom, a better partner, like, why get rid of it? But if there's so many things that are not serving you and you're just keeping it because of your scarcity mindset?

SONA: 27:30

What advice would you give to mothers and fathers I always include that genuinely want to have a cleaner space but they're not having the time to clean up their space. Like tidy up their space, it's always a time issue. Is that something that they can do themselves or it's something that they need to call an actual professional like yourself to help them?

EDIT: 27:54

Okay. So a lot of my clients are professional women who are also moms and they really want to be there for their kids and their family and they love their job too. So they just want somebody to come and help them do it. But they also want to learn in the process so they can maintain that. That's like I love helping people who want to learn. Like, if you want me to just come do it for you and go, I don don't take clients like that because I mean I can do it sometimes if it's an emergency, like somebody's having a big life change and they're good at organizing. They just need an extra set of hands. I will, but I'm all about impact. I want to make a change in people's lives, so I teach in the process so they're able to learn and apply it later. If you are on a budget and you can't you know you at the moment hire a professional organizer. There are a few things you can do. There are some books that you can read. I have On organizing some books that you can read. I have on organizing yes, really organizing and decluttering yes, there are. I actually do a pro bono project once a month for low income families because I want everybody to see the results and have access to this, and if you want to do it completely on your own, this is what I would recommend Start small, that you know how people want to get into a healthy lifestyle and they make this list.

EDIT: 29:33

I'm going to drink eight cups of water a day. I'm going to go to the gym every day. I'm going to stop eating this kind of food and within a week they just give up. It's too many changes, too fast, it's impossible to maintain. But if you start like, okay, for two weeks I'm just going to drink more water and then I'm going to add one or two workouts a week and then, little by little, you increase that amount. Start with your bag, with the glove section in your car, with a little medicine cabinet, and just go through and see what's broken, what's you know expired, what's out of use, what's maybe belongs to somebody else that's still there. Just return it. Something you haven't used in a year or two. Get rid of everything that is in this category After that. So the organizing steps are actually really easy. Simple, it's easy, but hold on. The organizing steps are very simple. It's not easy, but it's simple.

EDIT: 30:46

If you it's just like a recipe book. If you follow the directions exactly, then you can't fail. But a lot of people rush Like the shopping for organizers is the last step, but that's the first thing they want to do. It's like once they want to organize, oh let's go to HomeGoods, I got to buy some baskets or whatever for organizing. You don't know what you're organizing because you don't know what you have. You have a whole bunch of stuff. If you do the shopping first, you're just organizing your clutter, not your mindful space. So the first step is to take everything out, and that's why it's a good idea to start very small, so that you can, you know, develop your organizing muscle.

SONA: 31:30

There's an organizing muscle. Yes, can you talk about that? Wow, that's really interesting.

EDIT: 31:36

Yeah, once. What I mean by that is once you get used to the steps and it becomes like second nature you can little by little go to bigger spaces. So let's say it's your bag, you take everything out. Then you categorize Okay, these are my notebooks. Or let's bring a different example like your junk drawer, you take everything out. That's interesting.

EDIT: 32:03

A lot of people do have a junk drawer, oh, there isn't a person that does not have a junk drawer, believe it or not. Do you have one? I used to, not anymore, do I? No, I don't think I have a junk drawer anymore.

SONA: 32:18

I think most of the time it's like I don't know tools and stuff. They just throw in there. Yeah.

EDIT: 32:23

I've always had a junk drawer not now anymore because, yeah. But the junk drawer is actually an essentials drawer, if you organize it right, because you have your essentials, you have your batteries, you have your coins, you have your little tools for around the house, you have a pen or two, maybe what else? Some wires and stuff. Yeah, once you categorize you can, can go through it. So many people keep so many wires that they never use.

SONA: 32:54

When they do need it, it's on a ziploc in my house top of the closet yeah right, it's like we have things that are just so useless. So what is it keeping us from organizing these things? What's?

EDIT: 33:10

keeping, like you said, time. But again, if this is really important for you, if you really want to change this aspect of your life, you become first, like I said, write down everything and see what is not serving you. Let's say you notice that you spend five hours on Netflix a week, right, maybe one or two of those hours decide that you're going to now use for organizing or decluttering. Put a timer on, put some energetic music on. I have something called the Cleanup Club. It's like we get on Zoom once a week, state our goals and then for the next hour we just do those organizing things and then check in. If people have questions, they ask if they feel stuck or something. So dedicate those hours to that and, like I said, like when you take everything out, you categorize, you take everything that doesn't serve you anymore. Then you decide what goes back, how it is most functional to organize it. If you need to get any organizing solutions which most of the time we don't we only need that when we need to separate and the categories. That's when it serves a good purpose.

EDIT: 34:28

But this is too technical. If you're really interested in that, like I have so many tips on my Instagram and there are books and stuff as well. So yeah, just this is what I would do Write down why you want to make this change. If you write down 20 reasons why you want to become more organized or clutter-free, then this is going to be your proof or your helping hand when it's time to organize and you feel stuck or like, oh, I don't have time for this, I don't feel like it, or I had a hard day. Then you read your why list and you're like, oh, because I want to have more time with my family, or because I want to feel happier, or I want less anxiety in my life, because I want to go back to pottery classes, because I want to lose some weight and become more fit, or because I want my kids to have better habits than I do with you know the clutter, then it just motivates you to actually do that.

SONA: 35:32

What I'm trying to connect with Sona is. I love how you say decluttering and a more simple life gives you more time.

SONA: 35:43

I really want to understand how, though how can? Because I know that a lot of moms and dads are going to be watching this and asking the same question, like how this thought of like free space and declutter and organize pantry and closet sounds so good, but how is that correlated with time? Does it mean that we're not going to be cleaning as much, we're not going to be organizing as much? I think that's where I think people would probably want to understand the connection.

EDIT: 36:11

Okay, so I know so many moms that have a separate playroom for their kids, a separate playroom, a separate bedroom. Sometimes the living room has the kids' toys and everything. All objects take time to clean, to organize. Also, how many fights do you have with your? Not fights, but how many arguments do you have with your kids every single day about their items? Do you have with your kids every single?

SONA: 36:47

day about their items. Clean it up, pick it up. Clean it up, put it up.

EDIT: 36:50

All that time that goes to those arguments. Imagine if you were intentional and had only a size of this table. Imagine it has shelves and your kid has the toys just there. When you take those out, you play with it. You just put it back and it's done.

SONA: 37:08

But when you have it's so easy.

EDIT: 37:10

Exactly, and it affects your relationships too, because now you just tell your kid, hey, can you just put it back? And it's like, let's say, two baskets and they know exactly when it's organized. They know they just put it in that box and that's it. But now we have this shelf and we have a book shelf and we have all of those toys and the legos and everything, and it's overwhelming for us to organize that. Imagine what it does for a kid. True, when they have to do it. So it's not very um, it's a very high expectation to put on a kid to maintain a space like that. And some might argue and say, oh, but I want my kids to have the best education or the best opportunities in life and they like to create, they like to play. When you have too many options, have you ever been to a restaurant where it has so many?

SONA: 38:06

options. Oh, I get confused and angry.

EDIT: 38:09

You get angry you just feel like oh my God, you have this FOMO, like what if this is better than that?

SONA: 38:15

And then that's already like 15 different steaks and you're like which one, Don't you just?

EDIT: 38:21

wish it was like two options. I do, and then you could just pick that. Or you go to pick a new deodorant and there's so many options. You're like, oh, I wish there was just one that works. So, and we're adults Imagine for a kid when they have all of these options to play with toys and they don't know which one to pick. It affects their focus, their anxiety levels, their creativity as well.

SONA: 38:59

I can add to that to cut you off the appreciation for items Like as we talked about in the beginning. I lived in Armenia and I lived during the most difficult times war, soviet. It was intense. I had one little teddy bear with one eye it was a messed up teddy bear but I held on to that so securely and I appreciated that toy, I cherished it, yeah, and that made me have a more appreciation and respect for the items I have.

SONA: 39:32

I learned to respect items like that, but not only is providing too many toys and too many, you know, I guess too much space to play the bookshelf on this side, the, you know, legos on that side. You're absolutely right, not only focus, but the appreciation for toys. Then we get mad and we say you broke this one, this one's laying around, that one's laying around, you're right, we do get upset, but are we contributing to that lack of understanding of, you know, respecting items?

SONA: 40:04

is also an essential. It's a skill. It's a really good attribute for children to learn.

EDIT: 40:10

Yeah, there is this book called Simplicity Parenting and it's about how having fewer items for the kids really fosters their creativity. And after learning about this, I decided to do a test. And learning about this, I decided to do a test and I used to get very triggered when my kids were like I'm bored, there's nothing to do, because I saw so many opportunities. What do you mean? You're bored, you have toys, you have books, you have this, you have that. And after reading that book, I decided that I'm no longer going to get triggered by it because it said, boredom is amazing for creativity.

EDIT: 40:51

So just like getting over those first 20 minutes of whining, and then I just let her explore and she made something by herself out of I don't remember it was a thread or whatever, and the entire day she played with it.

SONA: 41:10

How do you, what advice would you give mothers Like you overcame that whining period of that 20 minutes? Can you guide moms on how to overcome that whining period so they're not so triggered and they don't just had an iPad or go buy more toys or you know whatever?

EDIT: 41:27

First of all, I would recommend doing this on a day where you're not tired or you're not after work, Like it's a good point Okay this is my, this is for this month's goal.

EDIT: 41:37

I want to see, I want to do this experiment. Choose a day, put it in your calendar and treat it as serious as you would a doctor's appointment, and then decide, okay, today we're going to do this and be with your kid in a room that doesn't have a lot of things and maybe have one or two items around, not even pushing them to touch it or do anything, and just say, okay, not even say anything, just let them come up with stuff to do. And if they start complaining or whatever, you have already prepared yourself. Just remind yourself in your mind why you're doing this and, little by little, see what your kid will do with that or with those items. Your mind will be blown. And if it doesn't happen on the first time, don't give in. Just try just once or twice. Just see what amazing things your kid can do with this.

EDIT: 42:36

Have you ever, like, gone to a hotel? It's a tiny room, right? People might think, oh, but you're so happy there, you're on vacation, you're exploring. Imagine if you could create that kind of a life here, why you can't create that life just because you live here. It is possible to do it, yes, and when people want to get rid of stuff and they think they're going to need it. This is another way, like if you were at a hotel and you couldn't, you didn't have one object. We humans are so resourceful, we use something else instead. So you don't need an avocado cutter, you can totally use your knife to do it there are so many options.

SONA: 43:20

Yeah, I think there, slowly and solely, there's a way to cut down responsibility there. Oh, there's always something. There's a lemon squeezer, there's avocado, there's strawberry picker like that picks the little and it's like wow, like are what's going on? Like are we trying to help people or are we trying to destroy people? Like it's really interesting how you brought that up.

EDIT: 43:45

Another thing that we were talking about time, like I just realized.

EDIT: 43:50

I don't have any of those items in my home. Like I have two pens, let's say, like I, the only gadget I have is a pineapple cutter because I love that thing. But I do take the summer off to go travel with my kids. And this is this would not be possible if I had more items at home to take care of, because then you have more items, a bigger home, a bigger mortgage, a bigger like. I have become so intentional about where my time, money, energy goes that I'm able to actually do other things that bring joy to my life skateboard with my kids on I don't know multiple times a week, to have a book club every Sunday, to maintain that book club and to run my social media. All of that is time and it's only possible because of this lifestyle.

SONA: 45:00

That is such a fascinating thing that you're saying I think what mother, what father, what human wouldn't want that? And again it goes back to some simplicity, like living a more simple life, like it's simplified. Was it hard for you to adjust? I mean, did you come from the more fancier life and then you had to simplify, or I don't know? I just maybe I would want like a little understanding of that, because I think that's so meaningful. So I always complain about time. Everybody always complains about this. What you're saying is there is time.

EDIT: 45:39

When I was married, we were my husband and I, like he. He was living with his mom and I was living with mine. When we met Soon, we started living together. We built a seven-figure business together. He got all of his dream sports cars. We traveled the world.

SONA: 45:59

So you did live a fancy life?

EDIT: 46:01

Yeah, I was just shopping at Rodeo all the time and everything. I was not happy. Whyale all the time?

SONA: 46:08

and everything. I was not happy. Why? That's fascinating, though. People would kill to have that life.

EDIT: 46:13

Yeah, I was very happy, but I wasn't fulfilled. There was something missing. I just felt like what is this feeling? Felt like what is this feeling Like every time I would get the new laptop or the new bag, or it was just at that moment it really made me feel like good, happy, yeah. But then it didn't last. But if I went on vacation or if I had a gathering with my friends around the fire and we danced and we talked and we laughed, I felt like you can take everything from me. Just let me have this, let me have adventure Really. Let me have my friends, let me have laughter, let me have dancing.

EDIT: 47:01

Those were the things that made me happy and this is how I help my clients find more happiness. Like we sit down and or they do this on their own, and this is for my coaching clients more than the organizing clients. Write down all of the memories that are invaluable, like the memories that you felt most happy, like anything could happen. Just if you had those moments, then you didn't need anything else.

EDIT: 47:34

When I did this for myself, I realized that the happiest I ever was was when I was with people having a good time. It was when I was walking in a new city for hours just looking at buildings. It was when I was learning the new skill or helping somebody. So that's what I did. How can I help people? Let me make this business. You know that I can help people. How can I have more travel? Okay, now my finances are way less than they used to be. I actually was going through a very painful divorce, so I decided to settle and give him everything and start from scratch. How'd you build the courage to do that? A New Earth, a book by Eckhart Tolle, the best thing I've ever read. It made the whole divorce process.

EDIT: 48:27

It's just I felt like a whole different spiritual being. It really helped me. So, yeah, I just created my life around the things that made me happy. For you it might be something totally different, somebody else, it can be cooking and like, or it can be. Maybe it does make you happy to have the sport card, to have the purses and stuff. It is very individual. I am not saying this life is better than that life, but I want you to ask yourself those questions. Not just go with what you see on Instagram or on social media, but to really ask yourself when was I truly happy? And once you know those things, just build a life around those things, because those are your true values.

SONA: 49:23

Yeah, again, it's about fulfillment. Do items really provide fulfillment? And and for most they'll say yes, but that's happiness, that's not fulfillment. Probably, huh yeah, and there's like there's happiness is such a vague concept.

EDIT: 49:42

It's uh. When I talk about happiness, it's about excitement, fulfillment, peace, joy. It's not that momentary, like the high that you feel.

SONA: 49:54

Yeah, kind of like opening up a sparkling water. Yeah, and you drink it and it's like feels so good and bubbly, but then it fades. Then what?

EDIT: 50:02

Yeah. So when you do feel fulfilled, it's not like every single day of my life is happy. I'm experiencing a lot of challenges and really growing as a person In this last year I've grown more than probably my entire year but when I do have those challenges, I am able to actually go through them in more peace instead of resistant or resentment.

SONA: 50:31

Is being a single mom challenging for you?

EDIT: 50:37

It is challenging I would say financially more than anything Really and also co-parenting with somebody that used to be like the closest person to me but with whom I have zero relationship right now. It's very challenging to do co-parenting, but I've had to really work on growing myself into somebody who receives, who asks that. Those are not skills I used to have before. I can do everything by myself, like I'll do it on my own.

SONA: 51:15

So you're talking about asking for help. Yes, why was it challenging for you? Because it is for a lot of women. I think they can definitely relate to you. There's just something about women and wanting to do everything ourselves.

EDIT: 51:28

Yeah, asking has always been very hard for me for multiple reasons. First, because I thought I don't want to inconvenience somebody. Second, because when things were done for me when I was a kid, it came with a price, kind of like, if I do this for you, then you have to do this. It kind of felt like owing for some. You know, it felt like owing and I felt like if I ask somebody something, then I'm owing them something, even if it's time. It's a very limiting and not a great belief to have, and I actively worked on it Because I know that when I'm giving somebody something, it gives me pleasure, so why wouldn't I allow somebody else to give me something? It's not for me, maybe it is for them, so why take that away from them? And I had to learn how to ask without any expectations. I'm just asking they say yes, it's perfect.

EDIT: 52:47

If they say no, that's perfect. Be grateful either way, something in the air so asking and receiving has been a big learning experience. What else?

SONA: 53:04

do you have more help now, since that you've learned how to ask now?

EDIT: 53:10

I will say that is still the one thing that I am constantly working on. It has become a little bit easier and I have a few friends that now I feel comfortable asking and receiving from. But it's still hard when it comes to clients, for example, when it comes to a testimonial, you know, like I will just mention it at the end, and if they do it I feel so grateful. And if they don't do it, I sometimes feel like, oh, if I ask, maybe you know I will be a bother, but I'm learning that people are busy, you know, and it's okay to ask again. You know you're not bothering anybody. Give them the opportunity to help, they will feel good too. As I'm saying this, I realized, like how hard it is still for me. But at least, even though it's hard, I still do it, because I love challenges, like, and I know that it needs to be done. So I do it, whether it's hard or not.

SONA: 54:13

Sona, kind of you know, stepping away from our topic. In the beginning you said you lost your parents when you were younger. Do you feel comfortable talking about that? A little bit. I'm very interested to hear your story.

EDIT: 54:25

Yeah, so in 2011, I was pregnant with my first daughter and we had a gender reveal party, and this was such a new concept at the time.

EDIT: 54:45

And my mom didn't show up and I was like this is so odd. You know, my mom is always the first person to come and it turned out that she was at the hospital. My brother had taken her there that day and we found out she had cancer the same day and my entire pregnancy was spent either at hospitals or at home and I was taking care of her and I don't know if you know what a colostomy bag is and her. It was kind of a traumatic experience while you're pregnant to go through, not just physically taking care of your mom but also watching the liveliest person become very frail. It was very hard to go through that and then she passed away.

EDIT: 55:35

Two years after that and three years after my mom's passing, my dad went to the hospital at the wrong time on the wrong day. It was a weekend, they were understaffed and he was given the wrong medication and not treated properly for the next two days and then his wife told us that he was at the hospital. He didn't want to bother us, so we went there when it was a little too late. So his organs started shutting down little by little and he passed away and I think the first time I decided to live a more intentional life and to become more like putting health as a priority in my life was after going through this experience and I was depressed after losing both of them. I, my whole life, was just fear, fear of cancer, fear of my kids getting sick. Like I knew every single ingredient in everything, what could cause cancer, cancer, cancer. And then I realized the number one cause for cancer and everything every other illness is stress, Stress.

EDIT: 56:56

So I just took all the stress out of my life and um, and what helped me was another book. It's called the Happiness Advantage. I'm right now reading it for the fourth time Every time.

SONA: 57:11

That's wonderful.

EDIT: 57:12

I just accept it in a totally different way. Yes, and what it says in that book is that we think that once we have this or once we achieve that, once this happens, then we'll be happy. It's actually the other way around when you're happy, all those things start to happen. Yes, when you're happy, you get a promotion. When you're happier, you get better grades. So through that book, I started implementing all the lessons to learn how to be happier so the other things could fall into place.

SONA: 57:51

Do you think that the experience of losing a parent, which is… I don't even know? I have so much respect for individuals like yourself that have overcome such difficulty because there's no, nobody would understand until they lose their parent, like there's no empathy there, it's only sympathy that. Do you think that the loss of your parents have changed your perspective of yourself and how to live, other than the fact of being more conscious and health aware? Has that changed you in any other way?

EDIT: 58:33

it made me grow up faster? Yes, for sure. Yes, um, it also changed me as a parent. Um, it also gave start to um, this idea. Um, I realized after my mom's passing that I just knew her as a mom.

EDIT: 58:57

I didn't know her as a person. Who was she? What did she like, what was her life like? And I got so curious that I decided that, you know, I don't want my daughters to have these questions when they're older. So I started journaling every single day and I am planning to write a book about my relationship with my mom, which was a very complicated relationship. We adored each other, but we could never see eye to eye. And as I'm growing as a parent and as a person, I am with her every single day. I just talk to her every single day. I understand her more and more and I want to write this book, both for myself also for healing our relationship, and also because she never got the credit of what she did, like. I want the world to know about all the things that she went through and did, and I didn't understand at the time, but now I do.

SONA: 1:00:07

What changed that understanding? Is it true that when they say you have this aha moment of life when somebody really dear to you passes away, do you have a more understanding of them? And because it's you said something so powerful and I got really emotional just thinking that that we do just look at our moms as just moms, like yeah, that's powerful. We don't see them as people. I think everybody should kind of process that for sure.

EDIT: 1:00:41

Yeah, when my mom she actually lost her sister, also to cancer, and her daughter her sister's daughter used to always open up to her and say my mom used to tell me when she passed away, I'm going to regret the way I treat her and I didn't understand at the time and I regret it so much. And my mom used to say the same thing to me she's like I have cancer, I'm going to die and you're going to regret the way you are treating me, the way you don't understand me, and all of those things. And at the time I really felt like I was doing my best. I thought I was going above and beyond to show her my love and I wasn't ready at the time in my evolution to understand what she meant. I knew she was going to pass away and then I was going to understand a lot of things, but I didn't at the time and I tried my best.

EDIT: 1:01:43

After she passed away, I still didn't understand for a very long time. Then there came a time when my daughter was growing up and things started happening. I was like I felt that a loss. I was like, oh my god, how do? And then her words were like I, my daughter, was me and I was my mom and he was like I could see everything. Now I could see what she meant, I could see what she did what do you think she?

EDIT: 1:02:11

meant, um, I think we had different love languages and she just wanted me to. She just wanted to be validated as a mom or as a person, as a mom, as a mom, as all the things that she did for me and I I was such an immature person then I I knew all the great things she did for me, but I didn't understand what it took her to do those things. And now that I'm going through that myself, I'm like the other day just clicked for me. My mom came from Armenia. Within three months, she had started a business, she had bought furniture, she had started to do our paperwork and everything so that my dad and I could come here. She had come here with my brother.

EDIT: 1:03:06

She was in her 40s then. She was an entrepreneur and I never thought about it until two weeks ago. I'm like, oh my God, I'm going through this entrepreneurial journey now and I'm like, how did she get clients? She didn't even speak the language. And I'm like, how did she? How did she get clients? Like how? She didn't even speak the language. And and also, you know now, doing it on my own, she didn't have much support from my, my dad, even though they were married. But my mom was always the go-getter and my dad was like well, they don't have anything to wear, let them wear my clothes, you know that kind of thing. So now I understand a lot of the things she was saying, but at the time and that's the thing also for moms, for anybody really don't push people to understand something. They will when the time yes, is there, it's, it's a it's a development.

EDIT: 1:04:02

It's a development. You might hear the same thing, like somebody might tell you the same thing 10 times, and it just comes from this ear, it goes out, and then one day it clicks. It's like, oh, because you're ready for that. You have gone through things that has prepared you for that message and now you can absorb it.

EDIT: 1:04:20

Yes. So another thing my mom's death has taught me is to learn to put myself first, because she never did that and that's why she had so much resentment, because she felt like I am putting myself last. I'm doing all of those things for you guys and you don't appreciate it. You know I still do that because we by default do what we were taught.

SONA: 1:04:54

And what we saw.

EDIT: 1:04:55

Exactly, and I saw my mom like putting her needs last, putting everyone else's needs first.

SONA: 1:05:03

That's so interesting. You say that that's been a topic for several podcasts now Not a topic, but a conversation, and I want to say this in the most respectful way possible, in the most empathetic, sympathetic way possible. That resentment is, we can call that food, let's just call it food. And it's poisoned food. And every single day you're eating that, it's in your body, you're consuming that resentment, that anger, that stress. These are contaminated foods that we're eating. What's going to happen to us Eventually? It's obvious we're going to get ill. So does putting ourselves first kind of help with all of those other icky, poisoned food? Yes, absolutely.

SONA: 1:06:00

You're doing something for yourself, whether it's, I don't know, taking a little 15 minute break or 20 minute break, but it is so hard for women to understand. There's always this guilt. Every time you do something for yourself, something creeps up. I don't know what it is, mm-hmm, I don't know what it is.

SONA: 1:06:27

And, honestly, when I go back and I kind of like look at myself and some of my clients, friends too, everything always leads to your mother. Yep, like I feel bad for the ladies, but like it always stems back to that, like I have never seen my mom take care of herself. It's always been. We need fresh food, the house needs to be clean, people are coming over or I have to do something for others. I have never and I'm sure a lot of women could could understand this I've never seen my mom do anything for herself. How am am I going to learn that as a little girl? How, and when the day comes, I'm a mom and I do something for myself, I'm going to feel an obligation. I'm going to feel horrible for doing that. So, my God, like I think we have huge responsibility as moms our generation.

SONA: 1:07:18

We need to really really work on changing that concept. We can't. I don't want my daughter I have a 10 month old I don't want my daughter to grow up and be a mom and do the same things that her grandma was doing. I want her to be a healthy mom, because I think healthy moms take care of themselves. I think a sick mom does the opposite. It's not always about food and a clean home, it's mental. Mental cleanness up here has to be healthy right.

EDIT: 1:07:49

I couldn't agree more like what's the point of my yeah? My mom did all of those things, but it's also the reason that she's no longer here, because of all the stress she caused herself. Yeah and.

EDIT: 1:08:00

I don't want my kids to ever go through what I went through. Saying goodbye to her at the hospital is just. It was one of the hardest things I've done in the years leading up to that, and I truly believe that we don't teach our kids by telling them things. It's about how we're acting every single day. Kids by telling them things. It's about how we're acting every single day.

EDIT: 1:08:28

And if I had followed all our Armenian moms example, I would probably right now be very bothered by my older daughter's grades right, but instead of concentrating on her grades and A's and B's, I'm concentrating on teaching her two very important things that she's the only person responsible for her happiness, and that's beautiful, yeah, and I'm. Every day. When I wake up, I'm like what am I going to do today to make myself happy? And then, so that they can, that they also can learn how to make themselves happy. And the second one is that you can achieve anything you put your mind to, as long as you commit to that, take the necessary steps, take one step at a time and get there. Those are my biggest priorities in teaching them what they do later with their grades and stuff. I was an A student my whole life. But like all the anxiety of like, I always have to get an A Like no, I just want them to learn how to be happy and to achieve their dreams, to be resilient, and that's what I'm teaching them right now.

SONA: 1:09:43

I've learned that sometimes a straight A student, sometimes straight A's, could be a trauma response too. I mean not getting an A and having your face smashed in the wall because you're not having straight A's, like of course you're going to go back and get straight A's. So sometimes straight A students, straight A's could be a sense of trauma response yeah, and that's not, that's not the only thing that matters in life. Yeah, going back to what you said about a mom wanted to be validated as as a mom.

SONA: 1:10:12

I was at the bank yesterday and I got to talking with my personal banker and she has her sons, they're very Both one of them is in astrophysics, the other one's a medical student and we got to talking and she's like everybody around me is saying that oh, you know, you're going to be a grandma soon. You're going to be a grandma soon. Both her children have relationships moving forward to marriage and so she's like I just don't feel like I'm ready to be a grandma to marriage. And so she's like I just don't feel like I'm ready to be a grandma. And she, she felt kind of she felt sad that she was in that position of OK, I'm in my early 50s, why don't I feel ready? And the only thing that I can tell her is that you know there's a thing called development here and that maybe developmentally you're just not there yet. If I go out to Americana and I see, like we did, we went out and we saw this 80-year-old woman there and she didn't have any kids, nor she had any grandkids. Obviously she was just obsessed with Nazany. She's like, she's so beautiful and she kept praising my mom, you're so lucky, you're so lucky. See, that woman is ready, like she would be a great grandmother. Developmentally, physically, she's already there Sometimes.

SONA: 1:11:29

What I'm trying to say is, sometimes women put a lot of pressure on themselves. You might lose a parent in your 20s and you can regret oh I didn't appreciate my mom. More Kind of like what you're talking about. Oh, I didn't appreciate my mom, more kind of like what you're talking about. But developmentally you were at that level and it kind of like your brain cannot grasp that idea of what it's like to lose a parent or what appreciation should look like or does look like. I think that we need to do a better job of being really gentle with ourselves and really understanding that a lot of these phases that we go through, you were relatively young to lose a parent, sona, very young. It doesn't matter you were pregnant or not, but you, you. I mean I think that losing a parent in your late, maybe fifties, sixties, is appropriate, but for someone to lose a parent at twenties and thirties, even forties, but for someone to lose a parent at 20s and 30s, even 40s.

SONA: 1:12:24

That's really young, and so to give ourselves a break sometimes and not push ourselves like, oh, we lost this person. I regret this, I regret that. We got to go back and look at where we're at at the developmental stage. So that's something that I wanted to clear that I've not just from you. A lot of women do struggle with that and I really wanted to put that out there that sometimes we're just not ready to accept those feelings yet, because our brain can't understand it.

EDIT: 1:12:54

Yeah, acceptance is one of the biggest gifts you can give yourself. And when I say, acceptance is accepting things as they are. Why are you resisting? Why do you think you should feel like a grandma, or you shouldn't feel?

SONA: 1:13:07

It is what it is you know True.

EDIT: 1:13:12

Very true Just accept what your situation is. If you have control over something, change it. If you don't just accept this moment as it is, that's one of the biggest lessons I've learned from Eckhart Tolle, and I live by it in every area of my life. Have you read?

SONA: 1:13:31

The Power of Now.

EDIT: 1:13:32

Yeah.

SONA: 1:13:34

I think it was that book or the New Earth, where he talks about body pain.

EDIT: 1:13:39

Body pain is in A New Earth, in New Earth earth where he talks about body pain. Body pain is in a new earth, a new earth. It's what is my. It's not body pain. It's what is that word? I use it all the time, but it's. It's basically what he talks about the pain, body.

SONA: 1:14:02

Yes, yeah, it's so powerful, it's like your ego that hurt child.

EDIT: 1:14:07

like those beliefs and when you're yeah.

SONA: 1:14:11

I love how he says be wise about choosing a partner who has equivalent pain. Don't try to and I watched him when I was pregnant. He was here and my husband and I we went to see him and he explained this so eloquently that you know when you're choosing a partner, also, make sure that they have equivalent pain, not greater, so that you can work with that, because what happens when you are with someone with greater pain. It's like so much anger, resentment, it's kind of like hard to work around it.

SONA: 1:14:41

So I was like wow, this guy is amazing. He truly is such a wise. He's a gift, a gift from god. Um, also, another book that's really nice is gary zukov's seat of the soul I haven't read that one.

EDIT: 1:14:53

It's such a beautiful book it's about grief, seat of the soul.

SONA: 1:14:56

Yeah, it's, it's um. Well, ed cartellle was discovered by Oprah um, so was Gary Zukav. So I mean this book, I've read it maybe like 15 times. I have like little things highlighted here and there, but Sona, it's also a very life-changing book and it talks about grief so beautifully and human beings and the mothership and the little boat. I mean everything in it is just so empowering. I'm going to read it Definitely.

SONA: 1:15:22

Yeah, so any advice for mothers? I always ask my guests like mothers, fathers, like you're such a wise person. I think that a lot of these experiences have shaped you in such a way where you're so like calm and collected. What advice do you give people who are struggling right now? Any kind of struggles?

EDIT: 1:15:49

I think what's the number one thing I would say? Yeah that acceptance is my number one, but I'm trying to not repeat the same thing um what would be okay. So it's so interesting how I'm so kind to other people but I am such a mean person to myself sometimes no really it's just the criticism, and I know that this is such a wide issue with so many women, especially moms.

EDIT: 1:16:39

We don't notice all of the things that we do that are right, all the things that we do that are changing our kids into better humans. We only concentrate on the things we didn't get done on the things that were still working.

EDIT: 1:16:54

So the number one way how I am trying to change this is at the end of the day. I write compliments to myself almost like encouraging things like what went well today, what did I do to make myself proud, what was hard, but I did it anyway. When I don't do this, at the end of the day I feel like a failure, like oh my God, there's so much.

EDIT: 1:17:20

But when I do this, I'm like failure, like oh my God, there's so much. But when I do this, I'm like oh my God, like I actually did this and this and this. This is a lot. So that encourages you to do even better the next day, and I want my kids to do the same. So we have this new tradition where at the end of the night, when I'm tucking them in for bed, we go over the day and say five things that went well for us that day and it's a life changer. If there is anything from this whole conversation that you're going to remember, just remember that at the end of the day or as they go, as you know, you did one thing that instead of having a to-do list, have an encouragement list. What did you get done? What happened? That was great and it's a game changer.

SONA: 1:18:05

I love that Journaling your accomplishments. Yeah, sona, thank you so much. It's been so wonderful. You're such a calm, wise person. I actually really am very appreciative that I met you.

EDIT: 1:18:20

Very good person.

SONA: 1:18:22

You make me feel really comfortable too. I could go on and on talking for hours. Um, I'd love to have you back on the show, so thank you so much.

EDIT: 1:18:29

Thank you for this privilege and opportunity I had so much fun with you guys, I know as I thank you.

SONA: 1:18:36

Thank you guys for watching, thank you.