Sometimes, when we are talking about the past, as you mentioned now, we are stuck in the past. No, go forward, keep going, deal with the past, don't stay there.
Speaker 2:If you expect your 16-year-old son to clean his room immediately but has never been kind of taught that from the beginning. It's kind of hard to teach a teenager to clean the room with the snap of a finger.
Speaker 1:Christianity is not the solid, so to say, jack-in-the-box religion. Christianity is a way of life, it's a relationship.
Speaker 2:You know, there's people who are just awful people and they're living fine. Nothing bad happens to them, but for some reason the good always gets cancer. The good always loses a mom. It's so sad to have people suffer like this. How do you soothe someone like that? Why do bad things happen to good people?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you, we do have everything, and especially in the United States. We do have the cell phones, the cars and everything, but one thing is missing L-O-V-E.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, thank you for joining me. Today's episode was really interesting. It was the topic of religion. It was the topic that I was looking forward to talking to with Mashtots Jobanyan, definitely not an unfamiliar face. He's somebody who has taught many families and has helped many families. He's a master of the Christian education and it was an honor talking to him today. We talked a lot about the Christian side, but also sinful behaviors, christianity. We delve into many questions of why bad things happen to good people and what's going on in today's generation. Why is there such misbelief? How can we help people believe? We talk about atheists, we talk about other religions, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Just a very interesting conversation and I'm having a really hard time finding words for it because I'm still quite blown away from the conversation. Meaningful things that he said and it really resonated with me and I think it's really going to resonate with you guys as well. I don't want to give too much away in the intro, but stay tuned because it really was a touching conversation and, why not? Maybe it could change something in you because his words were very, very wise and powerful. Enjoy this episode with and thank you so much for joining me on this episode. Make sure to subscribe to support the podcast.
Speaker 1:it's so nice to have you thank you so so much, oh no thank you.
Speaker 2:It's such an honor to be here with you. I have been looking forward to this conversation for several weeks. I think this is one of the topics that we're going to get into. It's very close to me because I'm a parent and I deal with a lot of parents and there's a lot that we're seeing in today's world lot of parents and there's a lot that we're seeing in today's world. You guys, we were just, we were just kind of diving into how, um, I was telling mashtots that I'm noticing a lot of children that are struggling with anxiety, struggling with these intrusive thoughts, and many times these intrusive thoughts are about like the devil catching up to them, just really satanic things, and it's really scary. And so I kind of wanted to get your like to say on this too. You said you've worked with many, many kids like this at the church.
Speaker 1:Yes, First also, thank you so much for having me for this wonderful podcast program and I think it's a, it's a god-given mission. Let me tell you it's a god-given mission because actually there is a need. There is a need especially in nowadays. So, uh, for sure, and let me give you something about my background.
Speaker 1:I do have two daughters too. You know two girls. One is 16, the other one is 12. Have two daughters too. You know two girls. One is 16, the other one is 12. I know and I understand.
Speaker 1:You know the challenges and the struggles that the kids are going through and I think the system that we are living nowadays, unfortunately, that they make up. You know, to have this kind of situation and especially the struggles with the kids, don't forget. You know the media issues, the Google search issues. You know the cell phones and everything, and especially that in one way, it's a good thing to have something in our hands, you know, to use it as a useful tools. You know. But the other way around also, we do have, you know, the bad side of it as much as the good side of it, but also the bad side of it. And, as you said that, yeah, I used to work with the families and especially with the parents, that they do have this type of. You know the struggles and the challenges and, sorry to say that, also the fight within the household, the fight, can you?
Speaker 2:tell me more about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the fight. When I say the fight, really fight about that. Yeah, the fight. When I said the fight, it means fighting. The kids are fighting the parents. Imagine the kids I mean something like 12 years old, 14 years old fighting the parents and if not the kicking the parents, I mean hitting the parents, unfortunately. I mean it's true, yeah, and in a way, way you can imagine how come that the parents, you know, I mean maybe they do have the power as much as they do have it, but no, I mean, you know, I mean the kids, they are trying to be overruling the situation and the, you know, the household.
Speaker 2:What do you think happened from your perspective?
Speaker 1:To be honest with you, I'm not surprised. Why I'm not surprised? Because if I do have the background from the biblical perspective, in the Bible it says that coming generation, there is a time where the coming generation, they will be like this the character. Imagine the character of the generation.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Literally, it's the character. Imagine the character of the generation, Really Literally, when you read the Apostle Paul and his letters you know, sent out for the congregation, the communities and his co-workers, and he is literally mentioning how type of characters are coming the new generations.
Speaker 2:And this is the new generation.
Speaker 1:And this is the new generation.
Speaker 2:Is there an end to this?
Speaker 1:Because this is destroying this generation.
Speaker 2:Is there an end to this, because this is destroying this generation.
Speaker 1:There is an end, you know. I mean, I can take it from the positive perspective, positive side of it. Yeah, you know, as the day starts, there is an end for the day. When the years start, the years will end up. You know, when you start with the job, the work, it will end up and that's our hope too, that you know it will end up, but how it would end up. That's the point also to think about it, to discuss and especially to minimize. To minimize the damage, because there is a damage.
Speaker 2:How can parents help their children minimize that damage? What can we do?
Speaker 1:It's a challenging question, I'm sure, and especially me as a parent I am going through every day.
Speaker 2:I am too.
Speaker 1:I am going every day and, to be honest with you, sometimes this is what I discuss also with my wife, you know, sometimes as if we are seeing what's going on and we can't do anything for it.
Speaker 1:The only way, you know, we come up with the conclusion, so to say, let's pray for this situation. Let's pray for this situation and, personally, I believe in the power of the prayer. Personally, I believe in the power of the prayer. Personally, I believe in the power of the prayer Because, if I believe in the power of saying the words and everything, why not, you know, let me believe also in the power of the prayer, because it gives me, you know, the courage, don't give up, have the hope. And it's the foundation of, so say, the, the christian faith to hope, faith and love. You know, and the foundation of all these things is the love. And this morning, when I'm coming, you know, to to the studio, I was, I was listening to to podcast, another podcast where it says I mean, he was the preacher, he was discussing about, you know, speaking in tongues and everything he said. The most important thing, speaking in tongues and everything he said, the most important thing, speaking in tongues, is the language of love.
Speaker 2:Love. Yes.
Speaker 1:L-O-V-E is the language of love, and this is what we are missing. Now Let me tell you we do have everything, and especially in the United States. Okay, we do have everything. We do have the cell phones, we do have the recent models of the cell phones, the cars and everything everything to everything, everything but one thing is missing.
Speaker 2:L-o-v-e mashtots, why do you think it's so difficult for parents to transfer that love to their children?
Speaker 1:because it is the ultimate recipe to success and peace and joy and, essentially, the love to god first, you know I have as a parent first I have to have the, the understanding, I have to have the experience of love in order to pass on the love.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's interesting in the, in the other languages, like like in in greek language, we do have different four types of wording of love. Sometimes we think, well, yeah, we love them, but how we love them. Is it a personal love, ego love or transcend the love? You know, is it an agape love or is it an erotic love? Erotic is a love yes, okay yes.
Speaker 1:So what type of love do I do have as a parent for my children? For sure, now I will say no, I love my children. Yes, I agree. I respect, but what type of this kind of love I'm talking about?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think that we understand love from our own perspective of what we think, but the love that we transfer to our children might not be the love right. Exactly that's what I was processing, not the one that they are expecting to you know they are waiting for or they need right Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's why here is the point for the wisdom issue Wisdom, do we have the wisdom? Maybe we do have the knowledge, but we don't have the wisdom, because knowledge is something, the wisdom is something else.
Speaker 2:What's more important, the wisdom I agree the wisdom, the knowledge.
Speaker 1:I can get the knowledge, you know, going to school, making some research, reading books. You know different types of resources. I can get the knowledge but I can't get the wisdom.
Speaker 2:How do people get wisdom?
Speaker 1:To ask for the wisdom.
Speaker 1:You have to ask for the wisdom, something which is given, and especially, there is a prayer in our language, you know, in the Armenian language, nerseshan or Hali, you know the saints, where it says Give us the wisdom. O you Christ, so you are the wisdom, so give us the wisdom. It means let you be in my life, you know, and if he's in my life, then it means the light is in me. And it's very, very interesting and it's very simple. You know comparison when we do. When you go to doctor, okay, and he's going to check you up your inner organs. What he use Knowledge First, knowledge, okay, and he's going to check you up your inner organs. Why he what, what he used knowledge first knowledge. But in order to know what's going on inside my body, he has to use the x-ray yes and what is the x-ray?
Speaker 1:it's a light yes okay, he used the cat scan. You know the technology and what is it? It's, it's, it's, it's a ray. You know it's a light. So it means wherever is darkness, the inside my body is darkness, dark. So I use the light and I want to have the light in order to see what is going on in the darkness. And that's why, when you read the Bible in the Gospel of John, it says the light came to the world and the world refused him because they were living in a darkness. So that's why he came as a light. Now we do have different types of lights LED lights, different, you know, motions of lights 3000K, I don't know.
Speaker 1:You know 5000, 4000, different motions of light, but where is the real light in our lives? No different motions of light, but where is the real light in our lives?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:What do you think has happened that humanity is so far from belief In the beginning? I mean, when I say in the beginning, there was a time when the human beings, they were close, I mean with their creator.
Speaker 1:okay, yes, but, then actually and I mean in a real sense the human beings are the ones who departed themselves from the creator. Why? Because when we go back to the Bible and the book of Genesis, it says when the, so to say, the devil, or the Satan, the serpent in the form of serpent, he came to Eve, the woman, and he showed something which is good for an eye and tasty for your mouth.
Speaker 2:The temptation.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And nowadays, what are the temptations? And, by the way, let me tell you the temptation that we are getting, it's not imposed on us, actually, the temptation is just try it, you know, in a good sense, simpler. Yeah, exactly, but it's up to me whether to accept it or to reject it.
Speaker 2:And that's why wisdom is important, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know, sometimes we think oh, satan is, you know, imposing on me. No, no, I mean in realistic Satan is just coming up and bringing me on a plate, on a silver plate or a golden plate. You know, hey, why not Just try it? Try it, I'm not pushing you, you know, I'm not imposing you, I'm not hardeningening your way, but why not try it? And that's the point, you know the starting point, just try it. And when you read the temptation of our lord and savior, jesus christ, the temptation that he had it, the same thing. I know you are a hungry man, you know you are hungry. So say to these stones to be, to be bread. So he's not imposing. I know your power, I know what you can do. So say to the stone to be bread, or throw yourself bow to me, you know. So, actually, the temptation, and this is what the disciple also, he explains in his letters and he says when we are having the temptations, don't tell that god is tempting.
Speaker 1:Oh and so the temptations are like something on a silver plate delivered to us and making us you know okay, let's try it, why not? You know, we are just living for one time. Yes, that concept yeah it's another philosophy of you know the concept of life. We are just here for one time. Why not enjoy your life? You know the concept of life. We are just here for one time. Why not enjoy your life? You know tomorrow you will not be here, and so all these you know aspects, they are having the influence.
Speaker 2:So, in order to accept it or to reject it, that brings me to this question, mashtots, that you know, we see, definitely, and I'm sure every parent sees that there's definitely decreasing belief, especially amongst the newer generations.
Speaker 2:Right, they have this concept that if I don't see it I don't believe it. So how do I know that God exists? I've never seen the guy and a lot of the teenagers that I work with will state that I think that there's definitely a lot of the teenagers that I work with will state that I think that there's definitely a lot of restrictions when it comes to Christianity and you know, the not drinking, the not being intimate before marriage, and those things are sometimes difficult for the newer generation to take on because they're not used to restrictions, even though it's for their good and it's to, you know it's less sin. How do you think that you know parents can help their kids to kind of understand these restrictions and work with these restrictions, and it's not just the drinking and the partying and things that there's obviously much deeper sense of restrictions in the Christian religion?
Speaker 1:First, let me put it like this as human beings, we are not ready for restrictions.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:As human beings. You know in general when you say no, all of a sudden, you know I will change my mood, I will change my attitude. And let me give you an example. When my kids come in and they say, can I have a chocolate? So is it a statement or a question? It could be both, but actually, but they come in as a question you know I mean asking for requests, Can I have, but in their mind they do have already the answer yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, they're not ready for that.
Speaker 1:But when they come in and they say, can I have a chocolate? And I say no, they will come up. Whoa hey, why not? You see? But you are coming to me as a request.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You see, you are coming to me the same thing. For example, you know drinking and everything. When I said no, but they do have the expectation and they are waiting for the answer and the explanation why no, why it's not permitted. You know why you are not allowing me to have it, the chocolate, the drink or any type of. You know why these kind of restrictions? Yes, that's why you know, when we take the example of Jesus, when he came to live the earthly life, he is the exact and the perfect model how to deal with human beings. That's why I said we, as parents, we think that we know how to discipline our kids. We don't know. To be honest with you, I don't know how to live my life properly. Ok, I need to understand to, to, to be taught by you know, I mean to have the wisdom, how to live All over. I mean, plus, how to deal with with, with my kids, how to teach them, how to educate them.
Speaker 2:But that's when you grow. I think that an incredibly wise, intelligent person admits that they don't know.
Speaker 1:And this is the point that I don't know. I have to learn. And the thing is, you know in our language you do have. It's not a shame I don't know. The shame thing is I don't want to learn about it. And when I take Jesus Christ as an example, you know when he came, you know he met with the lepers. He met with the, with the, with the lepers. He met with the, with the, the prostitute he met. He met with every single person and when we read the bible, it shows us how was his attitude with each one of them and how was his attitude?
Speaker 1:incredible. According to the law, the prostitute has been stoned. When he came in he said I'm not going to judge you. Look, I'm not going to judge you According to the law, because according to the law you have to be judged. But I'm not going to judge you. But one thing Don't do again. You see, forgiven. Because we, as human beings, we need to have the experience. You know, I need. So many times I can explain to my kids you know, don't play with the fire, it's going to burn you. But I don't have the experience yet. I have to have the experience.
Speaker 2:So what you're saying is that these restrictions and not following them at one point, it could do a service for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Like the same thing in the Garden of Eden when God said you are allowed to eat every type of fruits, but be careful of these three, the knowledge of good and evil. And it is very interesting the setup that has been there In the garden of Eden when God says be careful of these three, the knowledge of good and evil. And sometimes they come in and they say they come in and they say but it's a good thing to have the knowledge Of the good and the evil. Yeah, I mean, how do I know which one is good and which one is evil if I don't have the experience?
Speaker 2:There's a statement by a clinical psychologist who said that it is very important for a man to learn how to be dangerous first. And then and then to protect himself kind of yeah, and then use kindness to control that danger. But in all aspects, like you need to know how to lie, you need to know how to manipulate, you need to know all bad things first.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know already. You know, you don't have to learn.
Speaker 2:So that brings up a point Like are people born bad?
Speaker 1:They are not born bad, but they do have, so to say, the inclination to go to do the bad so people are born good, so we can't say, we can't yeah. No, we can't say they are born good, they do have both. So to say, I mean, you know, you know that there is something which is not good, but you do it I mean, I see it in babies all the time which one they prefer do right, but then.
Speaker 1:But then they always scratch, they buy, so they do these like hurtful things unintentionally unintentionally and something maybe to learn from it, maybe right, you know, psychologically, you know I mean developmental issues, but at the end they come up either they love it to do it, to continue to do it or they continue to do it or they stop to do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean the kids in the beginning. They like to play with the fire. And later on, when they burn themselves, they say, ok, wait a minute, stop, I'm not going to play with the fire.
Speaker 2:I think that's very calming because a lot of parents tend to take that helicopter mode, try and control every mood and they'll beat themselves up when the child gets into gangs or other bad activities.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, you're right, it is about their experience, their experience and plus, I mean we as a parent, if we are talking about the parenthood and the parents, you know we have to know how, as an example and as a comparison, we have to know how to ride a horse, you know, sometimes live it, sometimes tighten it, but not every time you have to live it, lose it, and not every time you have to tighten. You know the rope to control the horse. So it's a kind of you know how to manage and how to navigate Because, don't forget, before becoming a parent, me and you, we were child, you know we were children.
Speaker 1:Okay, we do have also the bad things and the good things we try to. We do have also the bad things and the good things. We try to have some experience with the bad things and the good things.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then, after maybe so many years or a couple of years, we come up with, you know, with an idea Okay, stop it, but why not, it's a good one, let me continue it. So it depends and this is also the, the good of it, the good side of it, the, the individual aspects of the human beings, you know. And then, how am I going to be an example for my kids? Am I going to be an example? Because sometimes, psychologically, you know we try to do. When we are child, you know we try to do everything, but now we are parents, we are putting restrictions Don't do this, don't do that.
Speaker 2:A lot, and our religion too, though that's my concern that it's really difficult. This generation does not like these restrictions. They want to be more free. Is there any way they can be guided to the belief in God and Jesus without any of these difficult restrictions? Because they're hard, it's hard.
Speaker 1:And the point is in the Bible you can read about all these things. Actually, in the Bible, that's what, when I mentioned the word L-O-V-E love, it says when you love, you don't hurt the others, do you?
Speaker 2:No. You see, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1:The only one that hurts.
Speaker 2:Is hurt himself.
Speaker 1:Himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hurt people, hurt people Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. It means in the Bible. Actually there is no restriction, but there is an explanation. When I explain to the person, whether the parent or the child, that this body don't take it as for granted, this body, take it as a gift, think about this body, don't use this, but don't abuse this body, don't miss, misuse this but but use it because at the end it is given to you, it's not yours, it's not mine. If I do have this concept, you know the end it is given to you, it's not yours, it's not mine. If I do have this concept, you know, because actually this is also the psychology of the human beings Everything is mine, it's mine.
Speaker 2:Very egocentric. Egocentric, yeah, egocentric, unless that's nurtured, I think.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:It has to be nurtured with L-O-V-E in order for it to come.
Speaker 1:Exactly and how to navigate all this, you know, with the child saying that, okay, can I have it, have this, can I have it? You know, sharing. Sometimes we say sharing is caring, caring is, but yeah, how am I sharing?
Speaker 2:What I am sharing Modeling Exactly. You have to model.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I mean, it's not an easy task. Let me tell you, we are not just sitting here and discussing, you know, with very much comfort.
Speaker 2:Takes a lot of consciousness, for sure. Exactly, I understand you.
Speaker 1:And it's challenging. It's challenging and it is difficult. It is difficult, but if I do have the hope, that's why St Paul the Apostle says have in mind your model, your Savior Jesus Christ himself as a model, and nowadays we do have so many models in our life.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:So many models. We do have our parents as a model. We do have grandparents as a model. We do have the stars as models. You know the singer stars, the actor stars. We have so many models and, fortunate or unfortunate, with so many models. You know the singer stars, the actor stars. We have so many models and, fortunate or unfortunate, with so many models, I am being confused whom to follow.
Speaker 2:This is actually a very true statement.
Speaker 1:yes, Whom to follow, and especially nowadays. With all respect, don't misunderstand, with these media issues the first thing that I wake up, what I'm going to do I mean log into instagram. Start scrolling exactly and to see who did the love sign, who did the like sign, who did this and how many followers, how many viewers, how many, and all my days are focusing on numbers yeah, digital dopamine as we call, say it's all digital like fake exactly, yeah, people, I mean. I do have my Facebook page. You know the, the prayer let's pray together okay sometimes.
Speaker 1:but I think I start to think I mean, okay, wait a minute, I just posted this prayer, okay, which takes 2.30 minutes. And as I posted the prayer, and all of a sudden I do have 10 likes, or love or whatever the comments are, and I'm thinking have you ever listened? 2.30 minutes of this prayer, my posting and getting 10 likes probably not for sure not.
Speaker 1:So I don't want the likes. Let me tell you with all honesty I don't want the likes. I want you to read the prayer. I want you to listen to the prayer. I'm not doing this program, so to say, to get loves or likes, or viewers or followers. I'm not doing this program, so to say, to get loves or likes or viewers or followers. I'm doing it for each one of you know human beings as a vitamin, as a mineral, as you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know.
Speaker 1:I do have vitamin D deficiency. What I'm going to do? Let me get the pills, then Let me get the vitamins. The same thing you know when you read the Psalms. The Psalms it says my spirit is in thirst, I need the water.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:We do have so many types of water distilled water, filtered water, I don't know, Reverse osmosis water but where is the water that it gives me? You know your soul. Exactly exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think these are the points also, for you know nowadays that we are living Not just the you know the challenges of the parents, but the society. The challenges of the society Because don't forget the society are who is the society If not the parents? You know the families, the society, because don't forget the society are who is the society If not the parents? You know the families, the households, households and the parents are coming together and making up the society.
Speaker 2:The parents. Nowadays they're just so consumed with work and I don't blame this, is not to shame anyone, right? But and this kind of brings to the next topic of where, how you know parents will say you know, we're coming from, we're the first Christian nation, we believe in God, we believe in prayer, but it's really difficult to have our children kind of follow. And one thing that I always say is like you can't if you expect your 16 year old son to clean his room immediately but has never been kind of taught that from the beginning. It's kind of hard to teach a 16 year old teenager to clean the room with a snap of a finger. That's something that needs to be modeled, that's something that needs to be instilled as a routine as a daily way of living, and it's the same thing with religion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the spiritual dimension of it.
Speaker 2:Like parents need to if they're a big believer, and this goes to the people who genuinely do believe and it doesn't have to be just Christianity, right, all realms of religions. It needs to be modeled from birth like genuinely and I believe in the power of prayer there. I have seen so many podcasts of you know andrew huberman. I love the guy and he's probably the most science brain individual that I've that I've ever listened to. But this man was talking about the effect of prayer and how calm and relaxed he gets just from praying yeah and so parents, I think, need to also understand that these, these kids are far from christianity.
Speaker 2:It's because they're not really introduced to it so young and you can't expect them at 16 have interest with thoughts and say, pray, earl, it'll go away it's kind of scary, unless unless if they saw you or they see you as as a parent, as a model that you are praying.
Speaker 1:Don't tell me go and pray, go and let's pray together yes and um, I believe in this so much.
Speaker 2:It just changes. You know and I'm gonna kind of validate the people who maybe don't believe in god you can call god whatever you want, the divine energy whatever, but there's something there is something out there.
Speaker 1:There's something and I mean hopefully, hopefully, at the end you will meet the guy you know. So, as you are saying you meet the guy, you will meet the guy and you will see that, oh my goodness, oh my goodness have you ever had people?
Speaker 2:have you ever had? Have you ever dealt with atheists in your life, yes, yes how is that experience?
Speaker 1:they're very aggressive and they could get very no actually, they actually know they try to to to corner me.
Speaker 3:Actually they try to corner me always actually they tried to corner me.
Speaker 2:Always, I always get that.
Speaker 1:And I had two different types of experience. One was he stayed wherever he was not believing. But the other one, later on he came back and he said there is something. There is something. How do?
Speaker 2:they get to that belief that feeling of there is something. How do they get to that belief, that feeling of there is something, what needs to happen in a person's life?
Speaker 1:Humble yourself, humble yourself and he will work within you. Humble yourself, wow. That's the key to open the door.
Speaker 2:Be open.
Speaker 1:Any type of doors, whether it's a big one or a small one, small key it opens the door, okay. Of doors, whether it's a big one or a small one, small kid opens the door, okay. And for this type of you know, because actually we as human beings, the first sin that has been done. What was the the first sin?
Speaker 1:uh pride, pride I was gonna say eating the apple, but okay, actually, pride, eat the apple, so to say, yeah, it was not an apple they, so to say, actually it was not an apple. They used to say apple.
Speaker 2:What was it?
Speaker 1:It was not an apple. The Bible it says it's a fruit of knowledge, good and evil. Oh my God, yeah, that's it. There is no apple. Otherwise let's try to find out what type of apple they already ate. So the point is it was a fruit of knowledge, good and evil. And one of the preacher, when he was trying to explain it, he said in the beginning it shows you good, but at the end it comes up as an evil. In the beginning it's very good, it shows you the good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nowadays we are dealing with drugs and everything. It shows you the good. You know you will have the, so to say, the fantasy and the good experience. But at the end, what is the end? In the beginning you start to read the book Very exciting but at the end of the book, what is the finishing? And that's the point that we are missing as human beings. We don't want to think the finishing, let's enjoy now, now, let's enjoy now the time. And that's the point that we are missing as human beings. We don't want to think the finishing, let's enjoy now. Now, let's enjoy now the time. Forget the finishing. That's so hard to do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's hard to do Living in the present you're talking about. Yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Everybody is just super anxious. Forget the future, so to say, Forget the future forget the finishing.
Speaker 1:Or the past, yeah, forget the past. But why to forget the past? What I'm now, it comes from the past. When I go to doctor for visitation or the checkup. What are the questions that he asks me?
Speaker 2:Past- questions usually Exactly have you, parents, have you did, have you parents, have your grandparents, all these things.
Speaker 1:Why we are not dealing with the spiritual dimension, the same questions, why we are not dealing with it. With our physical health, we are dealing. How about your parents? How about your grandparents? Do they have cancer? Do they have this? Do they have that? If I am dealing with my physical health, related with my past, why I am not related with my past, with my spiritual dimension? So let me think about it. But this is the trick Forget your past, don't think about the future. Live your present, but don't forget it's a present. In English word it's a present, gift, gift, yeah. So now that we are living, it's a gift. So enjoy the gift, enjoy the gift.
Speaker 2:So many people are falling into depression. And because Unspoken words maybe Lack of Lack of love. Lack of trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Fear, past. Lots of past, past, rumination on the past. Why, why me? Why did this happen?
Speaker 1:When I was discussing about the past. Take the past, build on for the present and looking for the future. Sometimes, when we are talking about the past, as you mentioned now, we are stuck in the past. No, go forward, keep going, use the past, deal with the past, make the conclusion for the past and now the present and then for the future. I mean, go on, go on, don't stay there, because I take it like this Each one of us, as human beings, we do have the positive side of the positive side, not the negative. We do have positive, we do have the strength, we do have gift that has been given from the creator.
Speaker 2:Then, use it. Sometimes it's so hard for people to find that gift.
Speaker 1:Ask for it. That's why Jesus told us Ask and it will be given. And sometimes let me put this way too Sometimes they come in and they say I ask so many times I ask.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I pray, it's not listening I pray and no answers. Yeah, what do you say to that?
Speaker 1:Okay, let me put it like this you have to have to write a letter to your friend. Okay, Can you explain to me what are the process to write a? Letter and to send a letter. Yeah, can you tell me the process?
Speaker 2:well, first hi. How are you? Okay, and then you finish up the letter, finish up the letter and then fold it put it in the envelope and tape it tape it and then put it in the mailbox write the address, address, sender, receiver.
Speaker 1:all of that, and especially at the end, the stamp.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, the postal stamp.
Speaker 1:Exactly and put it the stamp accordingly.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Otherwise.
Speaker 2:It won't get mailed.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you will get it back. Your mail, Okay. And the last thing, the last thing when you are giving your letter, the envelope, to who? The mailman?
Speaker 2:or the post office. I mean it could be both. Or just drop it in the mailbox or just drop it in the box.
Speaker 1:Okay, when you are doing all these steps, do you think, when you are doing all these things, do you think the mailman is not going to deliver it?
Speaker 2:No, very rare.
Speaker 1:Exactly when you drop it in the box. Do you stay there and wait that the mailman is coming up and picking up? No, but you do have the trust.
Speaker 2:I have the belief that it's going to get there Exactly.
Speaker 1:You have the belief and the trust that when you put the exact address for the receiver, the exact address for the receiver, the exact address for the sender and the exact stamping, you do have the belief that the letter is going to be reached.
Speaker 2:Be received, yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly the same thing with the prayer. Sometimes we pray but we forget the name of the sender, the name of the receiver, we forget the stamp. I mean, you get my point.
Speaker 2:I do get your point.
Speaker 1:So sometimes, when he's not answering, let me ask back to me am I saying something wrong things, you know? Am I saying something that are not? I mean for my sake, because that's the point too. As human beings, I don't know how to pray. Actually, I was just going to add to that how do you pray?
Speaker 2:What's the right way to pray? Because sometimes people have different ways. People think that it's kneeling. Some people think you don't have to kneel, you can just have like an authentic conversation with God. You know?
Speaker 1:Krikor Naregats authentic conversation with god um. You know, you know the priest, the saint. He said from bottom of my heart yes, pray with your heart that's it that's it right. I I believe in that be be be honest with yourself there's no formal way, no, physically.
Speaker 1:No, it's just yeah, we do have we do have like some like Lord's Prayer. Yeah, we do have Church Father prayers, you know we do have some, so to say, the formalities or the structure, so to say. But when you read one of the story from the gospel, when Jesus told, you know the tax collector and the Pharisee, they both went to the temple for praying. The tax collector, one word, he said have mercy on me, by the way, the Pharisee, he was praying, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I'm giving my taxes, I'm giving my alms, I'm giving, I'm doing my fasting and everything. But the tax collector says have mercy on me. And at the end Jesus said this man, the tax collector, he has been justified Because he came from his heart. That's it.
Speaker 2:I have a question that leads me to this. I've met a lot of people in my lifetime where every single word that comes out of their mouth has a lot to do with God. Everything, and I mean it. In a conversation, they'll bring up God, god, god. Well, jesus, this Jesus, this God, god, god, and sometimes it can get very overwhelming Mashtots, yes, and sometimes I look at it from a fear perspective. What are these types of individuals fearing that every other word is Jesus, god, and is this okay?
Speaker 1:We have to be careful, we have to be careful, we have to.
Speaker 2:Please forgive me for saying this, but sometimes I feel like even the hardcore belief could be a form of addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 2:Coming out from using maybe heavy drugs and alcohol, they go directly into this hardcore addictive belief.
Speaker 1:From one end to the other. It's like obese.
Speaker 2:but then now you're super fit and addicted to gym and proteins, and so that's dangerous for me yeah, there is no balance.
Speaker 1:There is no balance.
Speaker 2:Is this acceptable by God?
Speaker 1:Actually no, and that's why Jesus said whatever is for Caesar, give it to Caesar. Whatever is for God, give it to Caesar. Whatever is for God, give it to God. When they come up and they said do we have to pay a tax? And Jesus said can you show me a coin? And they showed him a coin. You know. I said whose picture on it they said Caesar. Then he said okay, whatever is for Caesar, give it to.
Speaker 1:Caesar whatever is for body, give it for the body. Whatever is for the soul, give it for the soul, but Caesar, give it to Caesar. Give it to Caesar. Yeah, whatever is for body, give it for the body. Whatever is for the soul, give it for the soul, but don't give it. Whatever is the soul, give it to the body too. You know, and this is the danger that we do have sometimes, to find out the balance. Where is the balance?
Speaker 2:Mashtots. You know what I think about sometimes, the people that are in that state of mind, that hardcore fear of this belief. I always think about. Who were they before? What would they be if they didn't have?
Speaker 1:that I see.
Speaker 2:I see, you know it's like. Is that what's keeping them to be good people? Be there, have that. But who were you without this?
Speaker 1:addiction and you know, at the end, this is my attitude or the approach to whatever it is. You are, you are for you and, at the end, with your creator.
Speaker 1:Maybe I can get some examples from your life, you know from your experience, but what you are trying to show me, you know, I mean whether you are in every other word you are using Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. Okay, with all respect, I'm not, you know, I'm not judging, but we have to be careful why in every other words there is, you know, this type of it creeps me out.
Speaker 2:It does it creeps me out. It's very creepy and I've met a lot of people like that in my lifetime. Everything is Jesus, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ. And it's so intense where you start kind of getting like this energy, Like I want to be away from this person. What's going on here?
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 2:It's very creepy.
Speaker 1:I don't know no, like, for example, when you read Paul the apostle, he said whatever I'm doing, I'm doing through him, for him, through him, but not as if in every other words.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean it's very overbearing and I think that….
Speaker 1:Unless if he's trying to do or she I don't know who I mean what they are trying to accomplish. I mean it's a question that we have to ask. I mean you know why. In every other words there is this you know the input of, or the quotation of, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that instance where I experienced that it was you're sinning, you're a sinner, you know everybody's a sinner and the only person in heaven is Jesus okay so you have to now and in my mind. I'm thinking, but that's not. It's completely different in my mind. In my mind is genuine love and respect for Jesus and God and being a good person and spreading love and being a good human.
Speaker 1:Those are to me and let him work through you correct. You know, yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately, we do have this type of, you know, I mean attitudes and approaches. As I said, when Jesus came, he preached, he taught the kingdom of God like this, the kingdom of God like this. But when he met with ordinary people, he met with ordinary people.
Speaker 1:But when you read the Gospel of John, chapter 6, he met at the noont time, at the well, with the woman, samaritan woman. And what was the discussion? The beginning of the discussion can you give me water to drink? And she said wait a minute, how come a Jew asking for water from a Samaritan woman male female issues, jew, samaritan woman Male female issues Jew, jew, samaritan issues. You see, but look at his approach Can you give me water? And from this questioning or the request, can you give me water, it goes all the way to the deeper and deeper conversation and at the end, the Samaritan woman, she came out and she said I believe you are the Messiah From cup of water or drinking water, all the way. You see the approach. This is what I'm trying to do I connect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is what I'm trying to say, and is this our approach too, as a church, as a parent, as you know, whoever am I, is this my approach too? This is the model, how to approach the human beings. Paul says in the beginning I was sinner too, but he saved me. And now, how am I going to approach the other person? Oh, you know, you are a sinner, comment no, I was sinner too, and I am still. I am still sinning. I am still sinning, but I do have the hope, the faith, you know, the trust, and I am trying to run the race. I am trying to run the race, not finished yet, but I am trying to run the race.
Speaker 2:There's this question that I hear many, many people use when there's disheartening things happening in the family, like, for instance why is God punishing my family? Why is this happening to my family? We're very good people. My dad's a good person, my mom's a good person, my brother's a good person. My brother is a good person and I really want to talk about this because I've received so many questions. When I put you know, send me questions, this was the top question.
Speaker 2:When someone is so kind and loving why do bad things happen to that person Is?
Speaker 1:God punishing Okay? Is God punishment Okay? And I'm going to complete the question like this so if you are a good person, why you have been getting bad things? My question also will be or the other side of the coin will be then it means the bad person is not getting bad things. Question.
Speaker 2:Or the bad guy is getting good things. I think that's what the concept was that you know, there's people who are just awful people and they're living fine, nothing bad happens to them, but for some reason the good always gets cancer.
Speaker 2:The good always loses a mom you know just questions like this that are in in humanity and it's so sad to to have people suffer like this. That are in humanity and it's so sad to have people suffer like this. But how do you soothe someone like that? Why do good things happen to bad things happen to good people?
Speaker 1:But do the bad people getting bad things?
Speaker 2:Of course, of course, of course they do.
Speaker 1:Of course, but since like it's egocentric right and let me put it like this you do have a paper, a sheet of paper, white, clean white. There is a spot, one spot of black ink, so your eye goes to the black ink, the black ink. So the same thing. Why do good people the white getting bad things, but do the good people getting good things? For sure?
Speaker 2:Of course they do.
Speaker 1:For sure. Okay, let me not to go far away. Does God punish us? It's not a punishment. Let me put it like this it's not a punishment. We take it as a punishment, that's why we try to ask so many questions why me, and why first? Why me, but why not me?
Speaker 2:why not me? What makes?
Speaker 1:okay. If not me, okay, if not me, then who you, then why you? I mean, you got my point. If I'm going to ask why me, okay, okay, he will ask me. Okay. If not you, then who?
Speaker 2:so it's okay for you to get it, but it's not okay for me to get exactly that's powerful, that's sin already and then second.
Speaker 1:Thing let's take it from out of our mind. He's not punishing us. For us it's a punishment because actually, we cannot understand his perspective, we cannot understand his plans, we cannot understand his way, because actually, when we read the book of Isaiah, the prophet God himself, he said my way is different than your ways, my way of thinking is different than your way of thinking.
Speaker 2:What I want for you.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. Let me give you the example when you read the book of Exodus.
Speaker 2:That's such a hard book.
Speaker 1:Okay, the book of Exodus it shows us 10,. So to say signs, if it is okay to say it's signs, the Egyptians was a punishment was a punishment, but God is using all these things as a sign for Pharaoh to come back.
Speaker 2:Yes, to come back, but they perceive it as punishment.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like, for example, we as a parent. Sometimes we try to discipline our kids, but for our kids it's a punishment. They can't understand. It's a discipline. They understand it. They took it as a punishment, my parents. They punished me. Is it a punishment? Or you, as a parent, you are trying to discipline your kids? No, you're trying to help your child because you love your child, but they take it as a punishment.
Speaker 2:They perceive it as bad. Yeah, yeah, exactly so it's the same thing with us.
Speaker 1:The same thing.
Speaker 2:So what would you say? That you know a mother passes away and leaves behind five children. How can those children perceive that as maybe God's trying to teach us something. Maybe that God's trying to tell us something. Do you think that's going to take time for them to understand?
Speaker 1:First, it takes time, For sure, it takes time to understand it. It takes time. I mean, we can't say as you said, you know, oh, I'm going to understand everything clearly within a minute. Yeah, the death of my parent is no no, no, I do have the same thing my mom. She passed away when she was 44.
Speaker 2:That's so young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was 44.
Speaker 2:Was that hard for you?
Speaker 1:Was hard for me, Was hard for me and it was a struggle for me. I mean to understand why.
Speaker 2:How old were you?
Speaker 1:I was 15. She was 44. And she was suffering almost for five years. It means when she was 39, she got sick, leukemia and 44, she passed away. I was 15. I was 15, 16. And I was trying to think, okay, why?
Speaker 2:Did you think why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure why, but if there is a purpose. So this is what you know. In the beginning of our program I said let's ask for wisdom. Let's ask for wisdom, let's ask for patience. Let's have the patience, you know, to wait, wait.
Speaker 2:Have the patience, exactly, have the belief, the trust. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not an easy. As I said, we are sitting here very comfortably and we are talking. No, it's a challenging, it's a challenging, it's a struggle, it's a fight. Let me put it like this it's a fight, but Paul says, the apostle paul says it's a good fight because the finishing is good.
Speaker 2:Losing your mom so young, now that you are the age that you are and you're a parent yourself, what do you think that experience, what wisdom did it bring on to you?
Speaker 1:I think god, god is working, god is working through I, I don't. I I can say I mean how he is working. I don't know. To be honest with you, I don't know. As Jesus says to Nicodemus the teacher, when he asked him what I'm going to do to inherit the kingdom of God, he said you have to be born again. And the 80-year-old man he said how am I going to be born again? He said you can't understand what I'm saying now Because you are actually thinking humanly, you know, physical perspective, of how I'm going, 80 years old man, to get back in his mother's womb and to born again. He said no, what I am telling you is born again, heavenly, heavenly birth. You know, spiritually birth. So the same thing in my life. How it happens, I don't know, but what I do know, you know. The same thing in my life. How it happens, I don't know, but what I do know, you know the same thing.
Speaker 1:When there was a man born blind, born blind. And when Jesus healed him in the temple, the law teachers and the Pharisees, they asked him who healed you? And the blind man, he said I was blind. I don't know who healed me, you know, because I was blind, and when the person healed me, he went out, he went away. So this is the answer he gave them. I don't know who healed me, what I do know that I was blind and now I can see. I was blind, but now I can see. Can I say it? Me as a person, you as a person. I was blind, but now I can see, because actually we try to ask so many questions who did it? How did it? You know, I mean as humans, yes, exactly, and these questions sometimes they distract us. They do. Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:They try to find an answer Exactly.
Speaker 1:Why this, how this, when this? You know all these types of questions. He said, hey, I was blind and now I can see. That's it, and now I can see. That's it Simple, yeah, actually, this is why he came, jesus. He came to simplify the life. We are the ones you know, we are complicating the life. We are the ones Live your life as simple as that. Look at the birds, look at the beasts, look at the animals. How do they live their life? Simple and there is no reasoning. They live their life instantly, with instincts. How about us? We do have the reasoning, we do have the power, but we are complicating our life.
Speaker 2:When you say that, it makes me think of another question that I got. And it was just that that complicated question, that humanly complicated question, Make it simple, right, and the question was incredibly interesting, but yet it's mind blowing of where our mind goes. Questions like when we pass away, do we still have, when we go to heaven, do we still have, the humanly connection with our parents, our parents? Are they still our parents in heaven? Is there still marriage in heaven? No, and so all these questions, that's fascinating to me, but is there?
Speaker 2:marriage in heaven. You said no.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:No more. The same question they asked the Sadducees. They asked the same question to Jesus.
Speaker 2:Really yeah. They said it's their marriage to heaven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly the same question they asked him. They came up with the question. They said there is a man got married and he died, and since he has six other brothers and according to their custom, the next brother, he can get married to the same woman. You know, you can't leave her as a widow. And so they came up they said since they were seven brothers and they all died, and now in the kingdom of heaven, who is? Going to be the husband of this wife, because seven of them they married wow the same woman.
Speaker 1:So who? Whose wife she's going to be, the first or the seventh one?
Speaker 2:so, then, that means that the mothers that we have there are no longer our mothers in heaven?
Speaker 1:in heaven. No, no more. That's so sad. Why is? It so sad? Because, no, the opposite side of it. The good thing is, now we will have another realm, another, so to say, setup, which is much more better than what we do have now, since we don't know it.
Speaker 2:that's why sometimes it's scary, it's scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why it's scary. And let me give you another example as a psychology of human beings, when we do have kids, babies, and we read them stories. I do have the experience, you know, when I used to read them stories. The next day I will ask them I'm going to read your story, another, one, new one. They said, no, read me the one that I know it oh familiar. Exactly. I know what's going up what's coming up?
Speaker 2:It's comfort.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I know when you're telling me about the three bears and you know so. I know the next step, the next scene, the next scenario.
Speaker 2:I know what's coming. The brain doesn't like change either way.
Speaker 1:And that's why, nowadays too, we want to know tomorrow what's going to happen, to have the comfort. That's why we are asking the palm readers and these and these, and sorcerers and everything, to know what's going to happen. That's what God says. Trust in me, trust, am I your parent? If I am your parent and you do have the trust, if I am your parent and you do have the trust, why you do have the doubt, then it means you are not trusting, and that's why Jesus said you want to inherit the kingdom of God? If yes, be like a child. Why like a child? Because they don't have the doubt. How old are your children?
Speaker 2:Noy is 11 and Nazeni is 11 months.
Speaker 1:Okay, the 11 years old. He has the trust, full trust.
Speaker 2:Of me yeah, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 3:A couple years later, ask the trust, full trust of me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely okay, a couple years later ask the same question.
Speaker 1:Okay, he will not I'm sure yeah, you see, it means, I'm sure, certain age. That's why jesus emphasizing be like a child to inherit the kingdom of god, certain age. Still, we do have the trust. Later on our mindset, it will open up new things, worldly things, different things, and we are going to get, get and get the same thing, the same sentence. You, as a parent, say to your child the same sentence. Let his teacher say it. Who is going to believe you? The teacher's one.
Speaker 2:Friends and teachers.
Speaker 1:Exactly Not yours.
Speaker 2:And then they get a little bit older, then they come back.
Speaker 1:The same thing.
Speaker 2:So it's okay for that phase.
Speaker 1:Then Parents should it's okay, don't worry, but it doesn't mean for okay. You know I'm being as an indifference. No, let me work on it, let me try to. You know, and, and especially, when I say discipline, it comes from the discipleship yeah, people have a different understanding of that discipline.
Speaker 2:They understand get up at 5 am in the morning, brush your teeth, work out, clean your room also, it goes to the extreme, to the dictatorship.
Speaker 1:Yes, but when I say disciple, it means I'm a student, I have to learn, I have to, you know, to get new things, and that's why the people that they get together with Jesus, they have been called as disciples. We, nowadays, we are the disciples. If we are the disciples, then we have to follow the discipline. If we are the disciples of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:So who sets discipline then?
Speaker 1:It comes from the disciples. The discipline wording it comes from the disciple.
Speaker 2:Which means learning following.
Speaker 1:Exactly following. I'm not a teacher, I'm still learning.
Speaker 2:So then, why are people using that? So then it's incorrect the way that people are using that.
Speaker 1:No, it's a correct one when I'm disciplining my child. It means my child has to learn as a disciple, as a student, Because he doesn't or she doesn't know.
Speaker 2:So when they say you're disciplined, that means that you've already got you. When I'm saying I'm disciplining, I'm trying to connect it to the disciple. Okay, I understand now.
Speaker 1:So when I'm disciplining my child, it means I'm teaching him, teaching him Exactly To respect the time issue, to respect the life issue, to respect, have a respect.
Speaker 2:Have a respect.
Speaker 1:Respect and to know the value of it.
Speaker 2:Not fear. Yeah, not to fear and to know the value of it, not fear respect not to fear many people fear is what allows people to be able to respect well.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't call it for a certain time so then it's love first for sure, don't go to god because of your fear that's where I was going don't. That's where I was going.
Speaker 2:Don't go to him most of the belief system is don't go to him because of the fear of the hell or the fire or anything.
Speaker 1:No, go to him because of love.
Speaker 2:No go to him because of love. Go to him because of love. Yes, and this leads to the other question of every single Bible verse that some people take is all out of fear, and I've seen this and I'll ask things like why do you keep sending me these? Oh, because the world is ending, god is coming, jesus is coming and you have to read the Bible and you have to read this verse and you have to practice this. So I feel like there's always this fear that if you don't believe and if you, if you don't read the Bible, that means you're gonna go to hell. You have to read the Bible. I mean, are those things true? It's not reading the Bible, going to hell?
Speaker 1:Yes, no, not believing in Jesus. Let's put it this way Not believing in Jesus, because if he's, if he's the one to come and if he's the one to judge, then you are going to face the judge. I mean? I mean, you know, don't read the Bible because of your fear.
Speaker 2:Yeah correct.
Speaker 1:Let's put it this way and not to complicate it much and more.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely Okay. The Bible is more, because people think that Bible is based on it's all religion. I think the Bible is stories, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's a story about the life of the human beings, correct. How to live my life according to the commandments of God that he gave us.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it gets so many attacks.
Speaker 1:And since we, as human beings, we can't grasp and understand all these commands. He himself incarnated through Jesus Christ. He came to world and he showed us how to live my life. It's a relationship, yeah, it's a relationship, human being. God, creator and creatures it's a relationship.
Speaker 1:It's a relationship Human being, god, creator and creatures. It's a relationship. And the apostle, he says one of his letters. He says if there is a fear, there is no love, and where there is love there is no fear. So either I do have a fear or I do have a love wow if I love you, then why? Why I'm going to be afraid of you afraid of losing you afraid of you?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly that's beautiful mashdod absolutely if I do have the love.
Speaker 1:There is no, there is no. There is no place for fear. If there is a fear, there is no room for love too, and sometimes we try to gain the love of our children Through fear, exactly, through fear Threatening, I'll leave you, you'll go leave outside, exactly, and then they will say okay, let me wait another couple of years and I'm already out. Okay, 16 years old, 17 years old, 18 years old, I'm out already out.
Speaker 2:One more kind of question I want to dive into before we finish, and this is an interesting one Is yoga and listening, or is practicing yoga against Christianity?
Speaker 1:It depends. When you say yoga, what do you mean by yoga? Buddhists, christianity?
Speaker 2:It depends. When you say yoga, what do you mean by yoga Buddhists? So the practice of meditation and yoga, whether it's deep breathing, whether it's physical yoga, is that?
Speaker 1:No, it's different types of. When you are saying physical yoga, then it goes to spiritual yoga, and then it goes to religious yoga, then it goes, you know, deepening, deepening, deepening Is that sinful From the Christian perspective. I would say you are trying to serve two masters. You can't serve two masters.
Speaker 2:I mean it is correct, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:You will come up and you will say oh, it's a physical one, it's a health issue, deep breathing Okay, I mean you think there is no way in the Christianity that there is a deep breathing.
Speaker 2:Of course there is. Prayer is a form of meditation.
Speaker 1:Exactly a form of meditation. Okay, yeah, I mean, why Don't take it personally, but this is my question no, no, no, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is my question what are you? Trying to get from the yoga Relaxation.
Speaker 1:Many people are no, no, but you can't get it from Christianity, because, unfortunately, this is the point, unfortunately, since we don't know what is Christianity. That's why we are trying to find out the missing parts of the puzzle from the, so to say, other sources, since we don't know.
Speaker 2:And that's why most people go to palm readers and so on.
Speaker 1:And knowing Christianity. It means you have to know Christ, because Christianity is not the solid, so to say, jack-in-the-box religion. Christianity is a way of life, it's a relationship, it's a love, l-o-v-e, it's a kind of love no one gave us who has been crucified for me?
Speaker 2:Jesus Buddha, jesus Christ, no.
Speaker 1:Other religion leaders no, no.
Speaker 2:So does that mean that other religions are going to go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus?
Speaker 1:You see, we are trying to extreme.
Speaker 2:I know, but I'm curious.
Speaker 1:I know I'm curious too, but whatever has been given to me as a person, you know to understand. As I gave you the example, I was blind. Now I can see. Can I show you? Can I? Show you the way. That's it. No, no, no. So this is the way I get it. This is the person that he healed me. Yeah. It's up to you, you know, and, as I said, don't go to him out of fear.
Speaker 2:Go to him for love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the love that he showed you in the beginning. This is what the apostle says Let us love God the same way that he already loved us In the beginning, he loved us. We are not the one that we are loving him because we don't know how to love, as I said, you know there is an agape love.
Speaker 1:There is the egocentric love. I love you as much as I can get satisfied from you, know when I'm done. Thank you so much, but the agape love is not that way of love. You know. The agape love, it means let me sacrifice my life for you. This is what jesus he did yeah he sacrificed his life for me and when I you know. Sometimes we ask our children how much do you love me?
Speaker 1:and they try to you know to make some gestures exactly, and when you, when you ask jesus christ, how much do you love me? How? How is he going to show us?
Speaker 2:Himself on the cross. Yeah, sacrificed this much.
Speaker 1:I love you Showing us the nails, you see, and this is how he loved us. And, as I said, what is missing nowadays, what is lacking nowadays, is love.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:How to love and how to be loved and receive. Some people don't know how to receive this is the issue in our new generation they're receiving love artificially. I posted something they never make the sign of, like they never make the sign of love, you know. So it means my life is dependent on the emojis yeah, you see, yes, they're dependent on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of the generations today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can can we say that it's a genuine don't be, don't misunderstand, with all respect, but is it genuine?
Speaker 2:as I said, I mean you don as I said I mean, you don't know Exactly, I don't know, you don't know what's behind the screen.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. So you know, uh, let, let, let us ask him uh, the wisdom you know, guide us, give us the light, give us the light.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, give us the light in order to see the path where we are going to, because without the light you can't walk in the night. You have to use the light, you have to put on the light to see where you are going. That's true In the day times. Yeah, you do have the light. Okay, you are enjoying the life and everything, but how about the night time?
Speaker 1:yeah and it's it's interesting this room is, you know, when you do have so many things, but in order to get the things you have to when you get in, you have to use the light whether in your memory whether in your memory, you know where is the thing you have put it but you need the light to guide you.
Speaker 2:You need the light that's probably the most beautiful thing I've ever heard in my life you need the light, and that's why Jesus says I am the light that's a very beautiful way to put it yeah thank you this was very meaningful, thank you,