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The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Welcome to "The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast," the podcast where insightful conversations unfold, and the depth of the human mind is explored. In each episode, I sit down with a diverse range of individuals—thinkers, innovators, and captivating personalities—who share their unique insights and experiences. Together, we embark on a journey of discovery, unraveling the complexities of the human psyche and uncovering the untold truths that influence our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.
The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Dr. Max Dula | Gut Health, Epigenetics, Holistic Healing | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #30
Can your gut health really influence your mental well-being and chronic illnesses? Join us on an enlightening journey with Dr. Max Dula, a seasoned chiropractor and gut health physician, as we uncover the profound connection between your gut and overall wellness. Dr. Dula reveals his holistic approach to treating conditions like leaky gut and inflammation, emphasizing the crucial link between the gut-brain axis, the vagus nerve, and the microbiome. Discover why an overreliance on unnecessary supplements might be sidelining your true path to health.
Ever wondered how your genetic predispositions and gut health interplay to determine your wellness trajectory? Dr. Dula takes us through the fascinating world of epigenetics, explaining how factors like infections and trauma can activate disease-linked genes such as those responsible for Crohn's and Hashimoto's. Through advanced diagnostic tools like quantitative PCR stool tests and food sensitivity assessments, Dr. Dula shows how addressing gut inflammation can be pivotal. Learn about the differences between anabolic and catabolic states and how they affect your body's healing processes.
How do parasites impact your health, and why are more people turning to holistic medicine? Dr. Dula shares insights on the hidden dangers of parasites and how they can disrupt your nervous and immune systems. We also discuss the growing trend of parents seeking alternative health options for their families, fueled by a rising awareness and skepticism toward traditional Western medicine, particularly post-COVID-19. Hear practical tips for reducing inflammation through dietary changes and understand the long-term commitment required for holistic healing. Get ready to explore the transformative potential of addressing root causes like toxins, infections, and emotional stress to manage autoimmune conditions effectively.
When are we going to hit that point where the threshold for your body to need to express disease it's come under that threshold? We don't know where that is because it's different for every person, and so when you're doing holistic medicine, it's a long game and it's also let's see and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2:Every medicine has a side effect and to heal one thing, there's always another thing. So there's so many people out there that are stuck on these meds and it's endless. And it's so sad to see people struggling like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do help people that are sick, but you're going to do yourself a favor if you just work with someone in vitalism and functional medicine even before you get sick, just for wellness.
Speaker 2:When a woman is pregnant, they don't recommend eating sushi which holds mercury or any type of fish. But when the child is born, it's okay to shoot mercury into the brain of the child. So I get the rabbit hole. But these are some of the questions that arise among people and it's questionable.
Speaker 1:On the first stroke of petting the cat backwards it'll kind of like look at you. You know I don't like what you're doing. I'm warning you. The second one it might get up a little bit. And the third one it might get up a little bit. And the third one it might bite you.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone. Today's episode was very interesting. I had on a gut doctor. His name is Dr Max Dula, licensed chiropractor and also health and gut physician in the Los Angeles area. I wanted to do this segment on gut health because I myself have been noticing an intense spike in autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses amongst men, women and, yes, children. So I wanted to have on a chiropractor who practices holistic medicine to attack leaky gut and inflammation.
Speaker 2:Today's topic was what is the direct correlation between a leaky gut and inflammation, and his answers were actually quite interesting and very educational. We talked about heavy metals in the body, lead in the body, mold, parasites, and what he had to say about parasites and mold were fascinating. There's a high chance that many people that are experiencing autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses are coming from gut-related issues, and his approach is attacking the gut first, because we all have a leaky gut that we need to take care of and nurture. So he teaches us how to do it. We talk about supplements and how we're overloading on supplements that we don't need, where we just really need to take a more holistic approach versus institutionalized approach.
Speaker 2:I think this episode is definitely keep you interested and going to have you intrigued and, most importantly, I genuinely wanted you guys to learn the difference and the correlation between your brain and your gut, because, essentially, your first brain is your gut and Dr Max explains that today eloquently. Enjoy this episode and make sure to subscribe to the channel. Thank you guys for joining me, supporting me and enjoy this episode. Dr Max, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's an honor. I've been an avid fan. I have to say.
Speaker 1:As I have you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and I've been following your work on gut health for some time now and I have to say I'm fascinated because I don't think that a lot of people know that the first brain is our gut.
Speaker 1:It's blowing up. Gut health is blowing up. I feel it's becoming the new thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I'm happy that we get to talk about it today and educate our audience of why it's so important to take care of our gut. So maybe you can start kind of teaching us what is the brain and gut correlation.
Speaker 1:Oh well, there's a lot.
Speaker 1:I think most people, when they think of the gut-brain connection, they think of the vagus nerve. Just by the fact the vagus nerve is a cranial nerve and it innervates a lot of organs that regulate our autonomic nervous system, which is part of the nervous system that we don't consciously control, system which is part of the nervous system that we don't consciously control, and it goes all the way down to the proximal or beginning two-thirds of the large intestine. So your esophagus, your stomach, your small intestine, your large intestine, all of that is regulated in part by the vagus nerve, which stems from the brain. But there's a lot more to that. Scientists are finding and I'm not a scientist, I'm a clinician, but from what I'm reading, there's a lot more to that in terms of the microbiome itself and the chemicals and cellular signaling and metabolites that essentially send signals back to the brain on how to regulate the enteric nervous system, which is the gut. So the gut and the brain. They communicate back and forth not just through the nervous system but also chemical and cellular signaling.
Speaker 2:That's fascinating to me. This is actually wild, but I have heard so many clinicians psychiatrists heal depression with their patients from just attacking the gut.
Speaker 1:Oh, are they doing that now? Yes, oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating, stepping on my turf Literally, and it's crazy because it works that they've healed. I've read so many articles on this that depression can be healed from the gut.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's like a gut issue there.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean up to 80 to 90% of our serotonin is produced in our gut. And this is you, a while before there's any kind of defined mechanism that can be institutionalized and prescribed. But they're starting to find out that it's a little bit more than just a brain thing, it's a gut thing.
Speaker 2:It's a gut thing. When do you think this gut thing was discovered? Is it recently, like new, or has it been around for?
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, Hippocrates is believed to have said that all diseases begin in the gut.
Speaker 2:So I mean when did it start?
Speaker 1:You know he see the granddaddy of it all. I don't know, you know. But certainly on the holistic side of things there is long, you know, holistic medicine. Naturopaths, chiropractors, people that approach health and wellness from a systems approach as opposed to a divided and segregated mechanistic approach, have always understood that things interplay with one another. How much they can debate about the gut-brain connection in the year 1900, I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting to me that you so tell me the you're a chiropractor, right.
Speaker 1:Licensed chiropractor.
Speaker 2:Licensed chiropractor absolutely, and so I'm noticing that a lot of chiropractors like yourself, they're practicing holistic medicine. Now, why did you get into holistic medicine?
Speaker 1:So I actually had my own health issues growing up. I got diagnosed with Crohn's disease when I was 13. And then I had other inflammatory and autoimmune conditions pop up, 19. And I was still functional.
Speaker 1:But after college I actually went to work on Wall Street and when I was there things really hit the fan and I went on disability at age 24 with all kinds of probably like a list of 30 things that would send me to 30 different kinds of doctors and institutionalized medicine, and I just knew that there's no way. This, there was no relationship between all these things. And so, you know, things weren't working out and I started becoming a patient of people in vitalism and some of these people were chiropractors and some were naturopaths and I decided that in order to save myself, I had to become active in my own healing, and I didn't want to be on the passive end of things. And so I went back to school and I said you know, if I can heal myself and then help others heal, I think that would be pretty fulfilling. So that's how I ended up going to chiropractic school.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. So do they teach you holistic health in chiropractic school?
Speaker 1:Well, the meat of chiropractic school is going to be 90% the same of any other kind of healthcare profession medicine, physical therapy nurse nurse practitioner, because the goal is mostly to pass boards.
Speaker 1:But the remaining 10% is clinical In chiropractic school. The heavy majority of it is on the musculoskeletal system. It just so happens that there is no institution of functional medicine or systems-based health care. Even naturopathic school often is very much based on. You have this condition and this is the evidence for this herb that can help this condition. But that's still not getting to the root that much, which is what is the etiology, what is the cause, the origin of these conditions and what are the systems in interplay. So a lot of some not a lot some chiropractors will gravitate towards that kind of thing, maybe because they knew a chiropractor who was doing this kind of stuff. That that's like me. And then there's naturopaths who do the same. So it could be a naturopath chiropractor, osteopathic physician if they didn't go into institutionalized medicine. But really there is no institution that owns holistic medicine.
Speaker 2:This leads to my next question is where does institutional medicine fall short? This leads to my next question is where does institutional medicine fall?
Speaker 1:short. Well okay, so where to begin? So there's pluses and minuses. I mean I'm glad that institutionalized medicine exists, especially for acute care. I mean, if I have an acute infection or I break my leg, I don't want to go see a licensed chiropractor or a naturopath. This is something serious.
Speaker 1:And so emergency care and acute care is really well developed in institutionalized medicine and that's actually how it originated. Is institutionalized medicine really came from? During the Civil War? Okay, so you know about this. So you know a lot of physicians began doing surgery and acute care and there'd be, you know, medics on the field, and so that's really the foundation of institutionalized medicine. When it comes to chronic illness or chronic diseases, institutionalized medicine has more of an approach of managing illness as opposed to reversing and promoting healing. So if someone has IBS or constipation or Crohn's, they might be given drugs in order to forcefully cause motility of the gut, or they might give immunosuppressive drugs for Crohn's disease. But what happens in these individuals is they tend to get problems elsewhere, because the root cause and if you look at the research, the chances where you have one autoimmune disease that you're going to have another is just huge, it is huge.
Speaker 1:And it's because the root cause of what causes autoimmunity is never addressed and so they just keep going on these autoimmune, immunosuppressive drugs. But they really their sickness is just being managed, and that's where the phrase sick care comes from, and that institutionalized medicine, when it comes to chronic illness, is more about sick care, not healthcare. But that's just a semantics, like you know playground type, you know Big pharma, yeah.
Speaker 2:So Big pharma and it's so unfortunate, because I do have to agree with you that every medicine has a side effect, and to heal one thing, there's always another thing. So Every medicine has a side effect, and to heal one thing, there's always another thing. So there's so many people out there that are stuck on these meds and it's endless. And it's so sad to see people struggling like that. Where the cure there's other answers, there's alternative, but people don't know the alternative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't grow up. Society has decided to communicate that what you do is you wake up, you have your cereal, you eat your Wheaties and if you get sick you go see your medical doctor. The survivability of holistic medicine has purely been off word of mouth and demand, and that wouldn't be around if it wasn't for results. So I didn't grow up wanting to be a chiropractor or even knowing what vitalistic medicine is. It was my own experience and how institutionalized medicine couldn't serve me with chronic illness that I fell into it.
Speaker 2:And that's what happens with a lot of people and what the interesting thing about that is that we have leaned on the government to keep us alive, and that's so unfortunate. We have so much faith in them where you know there's again. There's so many other alternatives. But this is my next question what are the most common causes of chronic illnesses that you've seen?
Speaker 1:So obviously you know I have a bias of being of working on the gut, but I think it's fair to say that 90 to 95% of people, whatever their condition is whether it's primarily a gut-related condition or their experience is a symptom thyroid, headache, fatigue and they may not have any gut issues that if I approach wellness, looking for hidden infections, toxins and approaching through the gut, I get about a 90% to 95% rate of reversing disease in individuals. So really it just goes back to what is the cause of disease. The cause of disease is the inability to adapt to stressors. What are stressors? These are hidden infections and toxins Environmental, environmental toxins, also emotions. What does that cause? It causes inflammation and inflammation is what leads to the illness experience that you have, because you can find healthy people and you can find these toxins and infections. They don't have the experience. They're likely not experiencing the inflammatory response or immune dysregulation that the sick people are.
Speaker 2:Since you brought up autoimmune diseases. Do you, as a professional clinician, do you feel that thyroid, since so many women and men are being diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease, graves' disease? Are these diseases caused by leaky gut?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there is research and you know, from a clinical standpoint I do see correlation between increased intestinal permeability, or leaky gut, and autoimmunity of the thyroid, and the major belief is so, in leaky gut there's a permeable membrane between the blood and your gut, where the gut will absorb nutrients. But when there is inflammation in the gut, this membrane, which has what's called tight junctions, becomes disrupted and porous, and so things that shouldn't enter the bloodstream, such as food, protein particles, certain toxic elements, that-.
Speaker 2:So it's these environmental or et cetera, these stressors are entering in the gut and causing this? Yes, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, whatever you know the, you know our mouth and our butt is the only thing that reaches the outside world you know from either end.
Speaker 1:And so you know, when we consume these things and we have our own microbiome, we want to keep it separate from the rest of our body, especially the circulatory system, where inflammation, the immune response, will occur. So when these things pass through the gut blood barrier, there is an immune response and specifically with thyroid, it's thought to believe that their immune system it's called molecular mimicry the immune system mistakes the gluten protein for thyroid hormone, and so when there is an immune response against the gluten protein, if there is molecular mimicry, the immune system can actually attack the thyroid gland.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 1:It's a lot and it's more than that too.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us the more?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me just take a step.
Speaker 2:Yes, please.
Speaker 1:The more is also epigenetics and genetic expression.
Speaker 2:I'm so fascinated with epigenetics.
Speaker 1:Because really, unless you're born with a genetic condition, a lot of things that come later is through some sort of trigger that causes genetic expression of disease symptoms, and so there are certain genes and genetic sequences that leave people more inclined, or they might be more at risk, to develop things like Crohn's disease or things like Hashimoto's. But it requires a trigger and actually if you Google any autoimmune disease and you'll see what are the causes, on almost all of them you're going to find infection or trauma of some kind and then you're going to get a bunch of other things.
Speaker 2:Oh, the body keeps score.
Speaker 1:So that triggering aspect is what that inflammatory aspect is. What can cause these genes to begin to express, develop their own proteins? A lot of the times in the forms of antigens attacking your own body.
Speaker 2:So what you're saying is people are genetically predisposed.
Speaker 1:We all are yeah.
Speaker 2:Like schizophrenia. You might have the gene, but it's not activated.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know until something happens and it's activated and that's it. So it's the same concept and that's why I encourage people that this truly is wellness care, because you may not even be at the point of expression, but I can dive into your gut, figure out what is out of balance there and I can take care of those things before these triggers go off. And so really it is a wellness care agenda. Yes, we do help people that are sick, but you're going to do yourself a favor if you just work with someone in vitalism and functional medicine even before you get sick, just for wellness, because in Western medicine, wellness care falls short.
Speaker 2:Once you get sick.
Speaker 1:They're there for you because you know that's incentive. Yeah, and it's not the doctor's fault, it's just the system that they got put in.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it can be.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:I mean, you already know my personality and what I bring to the platform. Let's be real here. Not all doctors are that honest. Oh, of course not, and so it's the unfortunate piece. But that's why I want everybody to know about you, because it's just a different approach and it's a more honest approach and more, you know, holistic approach, which I know that my audience loves that. So, dr Max, tell us, why do you focus on the gut? Yes, we know that it heals and there's all these great things, but why particularly the gut?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so partly from my personal experience, but also, you know some people when they go to see a functional medicine doctor, they'll run like $2,000 worth of labs and they'll look from everything into hormones, they'll look into nutrient deficiencies, malabsorption, all these kinds of things, things that are are useful to know. But what is the heaviest hitter? What is the thing that if you focus on, you're gonna have an 80% batting average and then okay, if that doesn't work out, at least you took care of that, now let's do some more labs. So almost every functional medicine practitioner, even the people that aren't focused on the gut, are gonna do some sort of gut assessment.
Speaker 1:I just go into it a lot deeper because of my personal experiences. I know more than what was just taught in functional medicine. I can guide people through Western medicine and if I want something from a medical doctor, I can almost tell the patient what to say in order to sort of goad that medical doctor to help us out. So the reason why I focus around the gut is, one, because it's a heavy hitter. Two, it's so prevalent. And three, this is an area where I really feel I can help patients be co-managed with institutionalized medicine.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. So tell us, how do you assess the gut? How does that work?
Speaker 1:So there's different labs. When I'm doing remote work, I like to use GI map. It's probably the most common lab test run on people, so it's a blood work.
Speaker 1:It's a stool test. It's a stool test. It's called quantitative PCR, so it checks for DNA patterns of microbes in your stool and if there's DNA found, it's suggestive that these types of microbes exist in your gut. And on top of that I'll also do food sensitivity testing If you might be producing antibodies against certain foods. And the whole goal of that is to. When we're treating, we also want to simultaneously reduce inflammation, because inflammation can prevent healing from taking place. We're either in a catabolic state or an anabolic state. So while I'm treating people for whatever infections they have or whatever is showing up in their gut lab, we also want to make sure that they are not causing inflammation further. That's going to be having us kind of swim upstream.
Speaker 2:Dr Max, what is cannabolic and anabolic?
Speaker 1:Anabolic is more of a healing type phase, when you know, whenever you lift weights or you're building muscle, you're entering to a stage of an anabolic state, like with, I mean, steroids is an easy example Anabolic steroids those things build tissue. And then there's catabolic steroids, such as if you were to take an epidural for some sort of or prednisone that can actually break down tissues. So it's for the goal of reducing pain, but we want the body to be in an anabolic state, not a catabolic state.
Speaker 2:Got it, at least for healing. Okay, so you get the test results, and what is something common that you see?
Speaker 1:Almost everyone will have something. What's?
Speaker 2:that something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it'll assess for bacteria, viruses, parasites, fungi and yeast, and it'll also check for markers of inflammation, whether there's blood in the stool, whether the pancreas is producing enough enzymes to break down food. So it's in terms of bang for your buck, it's. It's a really good test. Uh, it doesn't test for everything you know, but, um, if you find something on there, it's a good place to start. So, in terms of bacteria, there's pathogenic bacteria, which pathogenic means that even a healthy person can get sick by this kind of pathogen. And then there's also opportunistic bacteria, which a lot of the times, a healthy person would not get sick from, and in many cases these type of bacteria already live within us. But if we lack the beneficial bacteria, then these opportunistic bacteria can outnumber the beneficial bacteria and then cause symptoms. So it's not just looking about what you caught, for example, but literally the harmonious balance between beneficial bacteria and harmful bacteria like opportunistic bacteria.
Speaker 2:So then, the goal for you, as a clinician, is to clean the gut.
Speaker 1:Pretty much. It's not just removing infections. I'll also do heavy metals tests. It's another common thing I'll do.
Speaker 2:How about lead?
Speaker 1:Well, that's part of the heavy metals test. So you know, lead, mercury, those are probably two of the most. Aluminum are probably three of the most common heavy metals that I'll see, but it can also. It's another one of those things where, similar to the food panel, it's going to be causing inflammation, and so we want to do a heavy metal detox while we're working on your gut as well. Really, those are like the fab three you know, in terms of getting rid and helping the 90 to 95% of people.
Speaker 2:Do you work with kids also? Because half the kids are vaccinated and they've got all that heavy metal and that mercury and yeah.
Speaker 1:So I do work with kids while their mom or dad is there and a lot of times with the kids we will do some sort of heavy metal detox or we're gonna look if there's any immune dysregulation or autoimmunity and we're just gonna do the same thing just at smaller doses. And it's not a bad idea, after you get vaccinated to get assessed because, just like if you catch an illness, the point of a vaccination is to cause an immune response. I mean that's why they add all these, you know, things like aluminum and stuff in there is because they want to cause an immune response. But sometimes that immune response doesn't come down as easily as in other kids or people in general. And it can go on and on and on and it could be a little tricky to figure out.
Speaker 1:What is it that is causing this? But really it's hard to say. There's no conclusive evidence that it was the vaccine and I don't care what it is. I'm just going to find what I'm looking for and I'm going to clear that out. That's why I say I don't treat condition X Y Z. I just remove the interference from the individual and give the body the ability to heal.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. So then, now that we know that these types of results that you get, these can cause a leaky gut, correct? My question is what is the leaky gut and what kind of health issues can it lead to? So, yes, these things do cause health dilemmas, but what kind of health dilemmas?
Speaker 1:Autoimmunity is a big one.
Speaker 2:Is a big one.
Speaker 1:There's a belief that because when these particles cross into the blood it creates an immune response and blood is systemic I mean it contacts all types of organs and so you can get accumulation of toxins and all kinds of organs and the immune system might mistakenly believe that there's an issue with the organ versus something that's in the organ. That's why, if you do look up any autoimmune condition, you'll see some kind of infection involved. It's just the immune system got tricked or it's a little haywire or messy, and so autoimmune conditions, chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic pain. I've had people come see me that maybe they've had surgery, people who say that they have fibromyalgia, things like that, and a lot of it really comes back to the gut, because one of the key sources of inflammation, systemic inflammation, is coming from the leaky gut.
Speaker 2:Dr Max, what is the correlation between the leaky gut and inflammation, or is there not?
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a hundred percent correlation. I don't know that you can have leaky gut. Well, leaky gut is kind of a funky diagnosis, because our gut is supposed to be leaky to an extent in that we absorb nutrition. That's why Western medicine hasn't been able to really clearly define what that is, because it's on a spectrum. But just as the gut becomes more porous, there's things that are gonna be able to pass that is supposed to be waste, and waste is toxic, and so it's passing in your bloodstream. The immune system knows that's not supposed to be there, and so it's passing in your bloodstream. The immune system knows that's not supposed to be there, and so there's going to be an inflammatory response.
Speaker 2:So that's the wow. I just got the image of that and that's gnarly, by the way. Thank you for that. So that's the idea of the leaky gut, so it's waste leaking into your bloodstream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or what's meant to be waste, a part of waste, what's?
Speaker 2:that. So that's the inflammation, though.
Speaker 1:That is gonna cause the inflammation.
Speaker 2:So people have joint pain, god knows what else.
Speaker 1:The list is growing.
Speaker 2:What do you see that's most common?
Speaker 1:Autoimmune conditions, chronic pain, multiple chemical sensitivity. Multiple chemical sensitivity, so multiple chemical sensitivity people chemical sensitivity yeah, so multiple chemical sensitivity. People who are sensitive to, you know, bleach or other.
Speaker 1:So skin sensitivity, not just skin, or like body response Body response they can enter, they create an immune response and they can get headaches or dizzy or fatigued. Sometimes people get knocked out. They can't handle walking down the laundry detergent aisle in stores. I remember in my worst time I couldn't go into a bathroom if it was clean within the last day because the bleach would just kill me. And it's not just that it smells bad, it's that it hits you like your whole body.
Speaker 2:Right, it affects everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's a big one. A lot of these are sort of syndrome-esque type conditions like irritable bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia doesn't have the word syndrome in it, but the point being is there's no clear definition of what is the cause of these conditions. There's many roads to Rome. People can have a similar experience, but the individual causative factors can be different from one person than another. That's why I don't. That's why Western medicine, when they treat with drugs, they're only trying to improve the function of the person.
Speaker 2:It's a band-aid.
Speaker 1:It's a band-aid type approach, but because there's so many contributing factors and it's not clear that this caused this and X caused Y and Y caused Z. And that's what institutionalized medicine needs in their research in order to develop something that's standardized. And that is the plus and the minus of functional medicine or holistic medicine. The plus is that it's not standardized in the sense that if someone's not able to help you, there might be someone else who can. But it can also be a negative, because a lot of people are doing things that other people aren't doing, and so that communication is going to be difficult from one provider to another. So standardization occurs in any kind of institution, including medicine. It provides a benefit. A urologist is a urologist is a urologist and functional medicine. Just if you call yourself a functional medicine doctor doesn't mean that you could talk the same language as another functional medicine doctor. I mean there might be overlap, but there is a lack of standardization.
Speaker 2:What are you seeing more from the women and what are you seeing more from the men? Women, I tend Causation.
Speaker 1:Oh well, okay, so the causation all comes down to toxins, infections and your emotional well-being.
Speaker 2:So same thing. Mostly it goes back to that.
Speaker 1:There are some genetic predispositions, but for the most part that can be reversed. Unless you're talking about something like celiacs. Like if someone comes to me and they have celiac disease, like, listen, I can remove all the interference stressors that you have, but you're always going to react to gluten. But the way I kind of describe this is you ever pet a cat backwards. The cat doesn't like that right, I hate cats.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't, so you've never done that.
Speaker 1:No, Okay, I used to have a cat, so when I was a kid, to annoy my cat I would wear this heavy jacket. So if it bit me it wouldn't do anything to me and I would just pet my cat backwards.
Speaker 2:That would irritate him.
Speaker 1:The cat hates. Oh yeah, they got to be kept nice and clean. But on the first stroke of petting the cat backwards it'll kind of like look at you, you know I don't like what you're doing. I'm warning you. The second one, it might get up a little bit. And the third one, it might bite you. One, it might bite you. Okay, some people their immune dysregulation is at the point where all it takes is just poking that cat and the immune response is going to cause the symptom experience. That's something like celiacs, other things where the genetic predisposition isn't as strong and the immune response isn't as sensitive Crohn's, other autoimmune conditions, rheumatoid arthritis. We might be able to get you to the point where, yeah, you can start eating these foods again. Or, yes, you can go to some part of the place that has toxic things around you and you're not going to enter the symptom experience. But if you do it over and over and over again, you will get to that point where you get ill again.
Speaker 2:So then, now that we've talked about all the causes and what's really happening, then how do we fix? Fix is a not the best word. For a lack of better word, I'm just going to use fix. How do we attack inflammation? What do we do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's so hard because and you know I don't claim to have all the answers because, first of all, we live in a world where there's stressors all around us that contribute to inflammation. It's just impossible to keep away from it all. But a few tips, yeah, a few tips Not eating processed foods. Okay, let's start with foods Not eating processed foods, not eating too much sugar and not eating refined grains.
Speaker 2:So like 98% of our food is that Most food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably the toughest part, to be honest. It is Making sure that your home or your workspace doesn't have mold is a big one. We spend a lot more time indoors than our ancestors have. Maybe they used to work outdoors. But also the way buildings are built there's a lot more rooms for dry, damp areas, and so mold is more capable of growing in places that historically.
Speaker 1:But the thing is, I don't want to scare anybody because a lot of influencers out there they post all these things and it can really be scary. I mean, and I get it because they're trying to sell a service or they're trying to get people into a mindset. But listen, there are people out there who live. Probably there's mold that they encounter. Humans have always been around mold. There's always been. There's people who eat pizza and whatever, and you know they're doing fine.
Speaker 1:And so if you get into a fear state, that fear state is going to create neurological hypervigilance or sympathetic, which which can get you sick. And so I I actually have like a moral quandary, like every time I post, I'm like, oh my God, am I, am I creating anxiety? Am I creating? Yeah, and and that you know the fear state and you know, I'm sure you know all about this but really feeling that you are going to be OK and that if you think the world is dangerous, that's tough. And so whenever I work with someone, I say you, you've got to be approaching your, you've got to approach your emotional, you've got to build emotional resilience just as much as you build physical resilience.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I agree with you on that piece that stressors cause more damage. Why don't medical doctors treat leaky gut? Tell me that.
Speaker 1:Because the AMA hasn't provided a standardized protocol for it, but they know it, don't you think? I think that most well.
Speaker 2:it depends how much 100 years in med school. Well, I don't know how to treat a leaky gut.
Speaker 1:I don't know that they teach leaky gut in med school. No, no, I mean, I think they understand the concept of intestinal permeability, probably just from the fact that if they attend conferences outside of med school of ongoing research, but in terms of just what's in med school, it's not a big part because it's not a diagnosis that is being treated in institutionalized medicine. So there's going to be some doctors more of them know it now because it's not that new anymore. It was 10 years ago. Maybe a bunch didn't know about it, but really you got to use your own time and do your own homework to learn about things like leaky gut. It's not going to be taught as part of med school.
Speaker 2:So then this leads to my next question of what are the downsides of holistic medicine then?
Speaker 1:The downsides are kind of what we touched on earlier is that there is no standardization. So if someone doesn't get you better, you could spend years jumping from person to person and you don't know if that new person that you're seeing has some skill set that can help you that the previous person didn't. Maybe they don't. That's also the plus in that hope is not lost, but it's also the downside in that this can go on in perpetuity. So the lack of standardization there is a downside to that.
Speaker 1:The other downside is, you know, there is no oversight on holistic medicine. This is partly of why I can do what I do. If you try to go to a medical doctor and you say, hey, I want to address the toxins, the infections and, you know, heal my gut, they can't even do it, even if they agree with you, because they are under the umbrella of the AMA and if they do not run course, if they do not run protocol with what they're supposed to do, they're personally held liable. So it even extends beyond the institution. The individuals can personally be at risk in institutionalized medicine, but with holistic medicine there's no guarantees.
Speaker 1:With institutionalized medicine you can bet that if you take this drug, you know for a fact 90% of people are going to respond this way. 10% of people are going to respond this way. With holistic medicine, it's really let's see, let's see what happens, and when are we going to hit that point where the threshold for your body to need to express disease it's come under that threshold. We don't know where that is because it's different for every person, and so when you're doing holistic medicine, it's a long game and it's also let's see and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2:And honestly, I think that this is why people gravitate more towards Western medicine, because it's instant gratification.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Holistic medicine takes time. It's not cheap because it's not covered by insurance.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So a lot of these things are done with cash and people don't have the time, they don't have the patience. What advice can you give someone who wants to have holistic healing and wants to heal their gut but can't really? They just want that instant gratification Like, I want it now. I need it now type of healing.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, first of all, you're going to have to deal with the fact you're going to have to arrive at a point where you can feel, okay, that there is not going to be instant gratification because it doesn't exist in holistic medicine, and so that's some self-work that you're gonna have to do. You're gonna have to go into yourself and ask yourself what's the part of me that is demanding this instant gratification and what's so bad about not having that instant gratification? Is it that I lose hope? Is it that I lose trust and belief? Okay, why would I lose that trust and belief? Where is that coming from? So that's going to be the self-work, and that's why so many people just can't do it, because they have these parts within their philosophical framework of what they want and desire, that they don't have the patience and they just, you know they can't go through that road.
Speaker 1:But certain people do, honestly, mostly women. You know women are the best patients. I mean, they are. You know they will do the diets, they, they will, they will go, they will do the long haul. You know men tend to want that. They don't have the patience. They want that instant gratification. Generalizing here, not not everyone, but certainly, yeah, having that commitment to the framework and understanding what this is and what it is not is absolutely necessary, because it is a long haul game.
Speaker 2:It is Now, dr Max. I understand that there is a high rates of autoimmune diseases among women. Now how long does it usually take let's just say thyroid for a minute how long does it take to heal a leaky gut or inflammation that's causing thyroid dilemmas in women?
Speaker 1:It ranges from person to person depending. A lot of it can't be predicted, but someone might just have parasitic infection and nothing else shows up. They're fine with heavy metals, they're fine with bacteria, they're already on a clean diet and so, okay, let's just take care of you, know this parasitic infection, and let's give you things in order to restore your gut microbiota and heal the lining of the gut. That might not take very much time. But some people, they have a lot of things that show up and not everything can be attacked at once, because your ability to heal also requires energy. And so if you throw a ton of things at someone and they may not actually have the constitution to heal and utilize everything you're throwing at them, and then there's the risk of saying, okay, well, this doesn't work, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:So you really have to decide. Okay, what do I want to attack first? What are the phases that I want to go through? But I would say you know, on average, when I, when people work with me, I say give me six months, you know, in six months either I can get you better or I'll know exactly how much more time it's going to take, or I'll know if I cannot and if I need to refer you out to someone else who does something that I'm not as good at, but six months is really a good amount of time and some people it takes as little as three months.
Speaker 2:And what are some of the results that you get from women. Let's just say again, going back to thyroid, because this is huge, so many women are in this, and men too. I don't want to just keep it on women, but when do you, when you detox the body and everything is okay do they feel a difference? Is this truly curable without medicine?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't like to use the word cure because there is no cure, but it's all about reducing the need for expression there is no cure for thyroid.
Speaker 1:Well, you can take medication to manage the expression of autoimmunity, but your body will always be coded. The blueprint will be there to produce the antigens in autoimmune disease. But can we remove the reasons why the expression or production of antibodies exist? And that comes back to inflammation. What's the cause of inflammation? Toxins, infections and emotional stress. So you can either take the drug to artificially suppress the immune system so that the thyroid doesn't get attacked, or you can actually try to address the root causes. But to answer your question, all kinds of things get better in people. They come in with a primary complaint. They can live with the second, the third and the fourth, the fifth and the 10th and the 11th. Okay, they're there, but what they find is that a lot of things get better, things that they didn't even originally come to see me for. Because that's just how health works. It is a systems-based approach. It doesn't just work where one thing is getting better at a time. Unless you go the pharmaceutical, western type route, then you really are. It is one symptom at a time.
Speaker 2:Dr Max, let's talk about some of the symptoms that an individual might experience if they have heavy metals in the body and or parasite. And so I mean, what are some things that cause? There's people out there that are feeling something, but they're not conscious and aware of it. They know something's off. So what can we teach them? Like how, what are some of these symptoms?
Speaker 1:A lot of them overlap I'll just put that out there from the beginning is that someone can't come with a symptom and I can with 100% conviction know what it is that's causing that symptom. That's why I do run the labs and if there are no heavy metals and there are parasites, then I could be a little more confident that it's likely the parasites. But if there's both, I still don't know which one it is. I just know that we have to address both reasons, but what they can cause heavy metals, for example, a lot of neurological and cognitive.
Speaker 2:Can we talk about them? Sure the talk about which which part the neurological dilemmas that it causes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So difficulty concentrating, brain fog, chronic fatigue, anxiety in children, especially if you're pregnant, it can cause neurological development issues. I mean, this is where the theory behind the vaccines come from. Is, you know and I'm not taking a position either way because I don't have the absolute confidence but I can just tell you what the theory is.
Speaker 1:The theory of the people who claim that vaccines cause autism and things like that is that as babies or in the womb, or even up until the age of two, the blood brain barrier, which has the same tight junctions as the gut, hasn't fully solidified yet. And so when you are injecting something into a kid, or the mom is exposed to lead in a building, for example, and she's sharing the blood with the baby, that these chemicals and metals can move into the brain and cause inflammation in the brain. And so one of the theories is that what's included in these vaccines are going into the brain and causing inflammation in the prefrontal cortex, which is a large part of believed to be where the dysregulation of autism takes place. So you know, whether or not that's conclusively I don't know, but it's certainly something to think about and do your own risk assessment on all that stuff. And unfortunately, we don't have all the data that we need to make an accurate-.
Speaker 2:And these are the studies we should be doing, though.
Speaker 1:You know, and they are doing some studies out there. You know, I don't make this my focus because that is a rabbit hole. I mean it's that rabbit is really underground, and if you can make your spend your whole life going down that rabbit hole and I just chose not to but do I know a little bit about it yeah, and so that's kind of can kind of tell you. You know what they are thinking.
Speaker 2:The interesting to me is that you know when a mother I'm going to use the word mother when a mother is pregnant, when a woman is pregnant, they don't recommend eating sushi which holds mercury or any type of fish, but when the child is born, it's okay to shoot mercury into the brain of the child. So you know I get the rabbit hole, but these are some of the questions that arise among people and it's questionable.
Speaker 1:No, it's true. I mean, okay, the amount of aluminum in a vaccine. It's so minuscule and this is the argument you know this is the people who are pro-vaccination make is that it's so minuscule that if you're eating sushi or you're eating other things you're exposed way more. But then the counterargument is that okay, but it's not crossing the liver or it's not crossing these other aspects that are used specifically for detoxing and the major function of the liver. It has many functions, but one big one is to detox and to prevent toxins from entering into the bloodstream. And so, yeah, I mean, if you inject someone with something, I mean it's bypassing all of that. And so you know, I don't know, you know I'll have to, I just I don't know, I understand and I respect that.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to the neurological dilemmas that can be caused by having these heavy metals and these parasites in the body?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Parasites. We talked about the heavy metals.
Speaker 2:So some of the heavy metals can cause focus issues, sleep deprivation and et cetera. I think we got that down. What about parasites? Because this is huge, Many people are doing these parasite cleanses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so here's the thing is that we live with parasites in our microbiome.
Speaker 2:So it's already there.
Speaker 1:It's already there.
Speaker 2:Let's not freak anybody out because it's a gnarly picture.
Speaker 1:I know I feel like every time I see like an influencer post something, I'm just like I just want to be that guy. I was just like, oh yeah, but you know, you have it naturally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Cause they're my friends. You know they're sharing my posts. I can't no.
Speaker 2:I'm kidding. So then, how safe can these parasite cleansers be?
Speaker 1:I mean. So it really comes down to parasitic load. So you know, if you have too many and this is where this is why the microbiome is so important is because if you have a healthy balance to your microbiome, it will create the conditions where parasites really can't grow and multiply beyond what the biome around them permits. But yeah, it's true, I mean fish specifically. There's been studies done on. You know how often they find parasites in sushi, and it's way more now than it was even just 20 years ago. You almost can't escape it and a lot of time it's. You won't you know if you cut the fish.
Speaker 2:You won't see it because there's eggs. So, it's not a bad idea to do parasite cleanses. I eat sushi. It's a lighter topic. Away from the worms, all right.
Speaker 1:Everyone out there who you think that they're just like the ultimate example of health. Come on, everybody is like you have to live your life, and are there some people who really are?
Speaker 2:the perfect Superman of the way I'm sure they're out there, but I don't know any. I don't know any either. Okay, so naturally we have parasites in us, but what are some of the causes? If we have those dangerous ones, what could we feel?
Speaker 1:So absolutely gastrointestinal disorders. And it's not even consistent, because this is interesting is that your body, if you have an acute parasite infection meaning it just happened like you went to Vietnam or something like that you might have something like explosive diarrhea and this will be because your body is trying to get rid of the parasite. Oh, my goodness, Sometimes what I see in people with chronic parasitic infections is constipation, because the parasite wants to stay and so it's creating this environment where it will make it more difficult for you to pass, and so someone could have constipation or diarrhea, and it could be either one. And that's exactly why I say don't treat X, Y, Z. I just see what I find and go after that and also sleep issues and anxiety.
Speaker 1:This is, you know. You were talking earlier about how therapists are approaching anxiety by going after the gut Probably more than bacteria and viruses, probably even fungi. There is a massive correlation between parasitic infection and anxiety and sleep disorders.
Speaker 2:How dangerous is it to have these parasites in your body? Well, I mean, you die from this.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think, in probably the most severe acute cases. But like you'll know, like you know you'll be in the hospital and then they'll find out you have a parasite and you'll get better, Like most people in in first world countries are not going to die from parasites, but you can because they're immune to it. No, because, well, for the most part, parasites won't kill you. They want to keep you alive because you are a host for them.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's in general, just anything that's parasitic or that is living within you. They would prefer that you stay alive for their benefit.
Speaker 2:They're feeding off of you. What else are they going to do, right?
Speaker 1:Hey, we need you, bro, like you can't, we need you here, but certainly your life can be quite miserable, yeah.
Speaker 2:Ew.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's my next question? I forgot my next question Because I'm very good with visuals and I just have like these white worms in my mind right now.
Speaker 1:It's too much.
Speaker 2:It's disgusting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So is it true? There's this myth in my culture. By the way, you know that I'm Armenian right. Okay, when a child is clenching their teeth when they're sleeping, you know that, clinch they do it's because of parasites. Is this true?
Speaker 1:There is a correlation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's not conclusive, but 100%.
Speaker 2:Wow. So how does that cause that, though? What's going on with that?
Speaker 1:It's just an upregulation of the sympathetic nervous system and these parasites you know. Interesting with parasites is they will produce toxins and chemicals that will then control, they almost hijack your brain. They're kind of like what's the term, it's like a true you ever heard of, like spiritual parasites or something like that. Why are they called that? Well, parasites have this unique ability to control or send these messages that your brain will then produce certain hormones and neurotransmitters in order to ensure the parasite survival. So stress involves increasing cortisol, and an increase in cortisol is what creates immune dysregulation, and the parasites and fungi and other microbes want the immune system to be distracted. They want someone waving the flag over here so they can do their thing, and so part of that is getting your body into a sympathetic fight or flight state so that you produce the cortisol, your immune system goes haywire and it kind of can't focus on the parasite.
Speaker 2:Do they multiply?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:No way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a ton. I mean there's been scans of people in third world countries and their whole body will be infested with parasites. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Dr Max, let me tell you this fascinating story. So I, when I was doing my practicum hours it's 3000 hours that we have to complete, kind of like your residency right, very similar I worked in a homeless population. It was a shelter and I was doing social work with one of my clients and he just comes up and he's like, hey, you want to see something cool? And I was like sure he just came out of prison. So he was at the shelter and he had a cut on his arm and he literally just went, look, look, look, and he took his arm like this and white worm just came out, probably ringworm and I was just like what is?
Speaker 2:this is fascinating to me. So these things, you guys, they, they do exist oh yeah I don't think that people are very aware of these. Well, that's a ringworm. It's a little different.
Speaker 2:But, still, I don't think that people are very aware that parasites are in the body, and it's in what Pork? Right, it's in fish. And then we have to be really mindful of what we're eating. So, leading to the next question how can we take care of our gut? What are some tips that you can give the audience, like what can they do to avoid these situations?
Speaker 1:Well, I think you know part of what I do and other functional medicine people is. It is part of wellness. So I think going to see your functional medicine doctor or holistic doctor that assesses for these things independent of the symptoms you experience is wise. Whether you do that twice a year or something like that just to clean yourself out is a good idea. There are certain supplements that are good for leaky gut, for healing the lining of the gut.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us some of them?
Speaker 1:L-glutamine is one of them. L-glutamine, l-glutamine, yeah.
Speaker 2:What does?
Speaker 1:that do. It basically just reduces inflammation in the gut, lining to allow it to heal better. Same thing with Slippery Elm.
Speaker 2:I've heard of that.
Speaker 1:Slippery Elm is another one Colostrum, if you've heard of Colostrum.
Speaker 2:I've heard of this brand that everyone's a fan of on Instagram. What is it? A-m-r-a? It's the cow's, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's the first milk production of the cow right after the calf is born.
Speaker 2:Do you believe in that? Do you think it works?
Speaker 1:Well, no, I mean it's proven to support. So there's data, oh there's data yeah, there's data that it supports the healing of these junctions that have become porous in the gut lining. If someone's super sensitive to dairy, it may not be good for them, but you know there's a lot of ways to skin a cat and you know that's just one of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, any other ones in particular you like. What about for inflammation.
Speaker 1:For inflammation. I mean you can do turmeric, you can do resveratrol, you can do quercetin, you can do a lot of different things. For flavonoids, flavanol is really good Antioxidants high-dose antioxidants.
Speaker 2:Sorry to cut you off. I've heard that methylfolates are amazing for people who are struggling with autoimmune diseases. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on whether they have a genetic deficiency in certain aspects.
Speaker 2:So not everybody can take it.
Speaker 1:Not everyone needs it, I mean, and methylation is this whole other ballgame and I don't do much of methylation because I find that if you get rid of the stressors, the toxins, infections, pathogens that most people can can methylate well enough, but there are some people who cannot. And if you do want to assist with methylation while you heal someone, can that only help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can only help, but can you tell the audience what methylation is, cause I know that there's folic acid and there's methylfolates. It's a little different, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you can. You can view your body If you open up like a grandfather's clock and you see all these different wheels and trinkets and they're all. You turn one of them and they all kind of move. If you view that process as the biochemical cascade of events that happen in your body in order to function, in order to create certain enzymes or to break certain things down, or it's basically the insides of the grandfather clock that is your autonomic, your system that is processing things, and so there are certain people these are all made of methylation relies on the production of proteins, and there are certain people who have genetic markers that they just miss or do not methylate, or there are certain parts of this grandfather clock that aren't working as well. It could use a little bit of support. So you know, if you supplement based on that specific area that's malfunctioning and again, this is not my area of expertise- but it's an interesting conversation, it's okay.
Speaker 1:You can really smooth out those cogwheels of the grandfather clock, but for most people that's never an issue. And then, all of a sudden, you get sick, and now we need to address methylation. Well, why don't we address the reason why someone got sick?
Speaker 2:That's my argument.
Speaker 1:That's why I choose not to make methylation my main thing. But is it helpful? Sure, it's helpful.
Speaker 2:So your thing is attack the gut. Let's rule out all the environmental stressors or all the body stressors, because then, once that healed, you can methylate naturally.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I mean, the chance that someone I can't help someone because of a methylation issue is low. I mean, can it happen? Sure, and you know. That's why, when I get to that six-month point and I think about, okay, maybe you're one of the you know one to 5% of people where I'm hitting a wall, I'll think about who does something that I don't do, and maybe there's a chance that that's where it's at and I'll think of someone who does methylation.
Speaker 2:Yes, interesting. My next question for you, dr Max, is we are living in a world where every time you go into a grocery store, the first thing you see are these supplement aisles. It's nowhere around, like when you walk to Europe. It's not like this. You go to a grocery store in Europe, it's not like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:But in America, when you walk into a supermarket like Sprouts, whole Foods, right there, supplements. So we people, you know, I think, that we're all about taking supplements. So my question is I went on this rabbit hole before I got here how much of supplements can we take? Because everyone's really invested in all these supplements. You see people taking selenium, this, that, l-theanine, gaba, blah, blah, blah. How healthy are these supplements to be consuming, all of them?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's kind of multiple parts of that. So for one, how do you know that you need that supplement? Just because the supplement is good, has been shown to provide certain benefits. You don't know that you have some sort of deficiency that this supplement is going to fill you. Just it just makes you feel good and so you buy, you know zinc or whatever, and because you think that, it's going to help you.
Speaker 1:Most of the time. I mean, I'll sometimes even save people money because they'll come see me and I'll say, okay, you don't need to do these, but you know, ahead and keep that one, I'm gonna throw this one in. So really, a lot of it is just a marketing and it's America, like there's no one regulating anything. You wanna go take all these supplements? You can do it. The quality of the supplements there are certain brands that I trust.
Speaker 2:What are your favorites?
Speaker 1:I mean I have a lot, but in terms of herbs, supreme Nutrition is really good.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, dr Charlie's recommends that, right, yeah, we're all part of the same. You're a part of the same.
Speaker 1:Actually, Dr Charlie was my chiropractor just before I was going into school.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Partly when I was in school. I found you through him by the way, yeah, so yeah, there's a community of the chiropractors that kind of do the same stuff yeah. So Supreme Nutrition is a popular one. I like Thorne. Yes, thorne, pure Encapsulations is good.
Speaker 2:I'm a fan of Metagenics too. Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1:Metagenics is good. There's some people listen. There's going to be no broad agreement across this, even in this.
Speaker 2:I should have been a chiropractor, Dr Max.
Speaker 1:No, you know a lot. I mean, yeah, I should have been because I'm fascinated.
Speaker 2:I mean, I read a lot, I research a lot. That's why, thus being the reason, we're doing this show. I mean it's fascinating because I believe in what you're doing. I do.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. I mean you don't need to. That's kind of. The beauty of social media is a lot of these, especially moms, because they want the best for their kids.
Speaker 2:Moms are the chiropractors. I'm like these moms are impressive.
Speaker 1:They know a lot yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean for the past, I think 10 years a lot of moms, a lot of dads too, people in general. They're waking up more and they're realizing that they have alternatives. They don't have to just rely on Western medicine. You don't always have to take these medicines to make you feel better. You know there's other options and it's always good to have doctors like you to give us those other options. So I'm really grateful that we had this conversation today.
Speaker 1:And honestly I'll just throw out there real quick you know I've noticed a huge leap of interest since COVID, because I think COVID really woke a lot of people up when the government wasn't talking at all about the benefits of vitamin D and you know all these other types of things Ivermectin, right, exactly, and so a lot of people. Half of it was just that we were being gaslit.
Speaker 2:We were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other half is just in general distrust of institutions, whether it's for that person's good or not. More people have are becoming distrustful and are interested in what it is that vitalism offers.
Speaker 2:I agree with you and I'm so. Aren't you happy that people are more awake now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's wild. I mean, it really has blown up in the last few years.
Speaker 2:I know. Well, this was awesome. Thank you so much. I think I've learned so much from you and I think obviously the audience has too, and thank you, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me © BF-WATCH TV 2021.