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The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Welcome to "The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast," the podcast where insightful conversations unfold, and the depth of the human mind is explored. In each episode, I sit down with a diverse range of individuals—thinkers, innovators, and captivating personalities—who share their unique insights and experiences. Together, we embark on a journey of discovery, unraveling the complexities of the human psyche and uncovering the untold truths that influence our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.
The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Ellin Mardirosian | Emotional Intelligence, Female Empowerment | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #33
What if the journey from Iran to Germany, and then to America could redefine your perspective on familial bonds and personal success? Explore this transformative narrative with Ellin Mardirosian, a distinguished personal injury attorney, as we navigate the intricacies of immigrant family dynamics and the pursuit of education. We dive into the evolving relationship with our parents and the timeless importance of self-education, loyalty, and perseverance. Personal anecdotes reveal how these core values have shaped our paths, urging a re-examination of traditional success metrics and the vital role of emotional intelligence in education.
Together with Ellin, we unpack the emotional and social intricacies of children's learning environments, challenging the emphasis on standardized metrics and advocating for empathy and passion in education. The discussion extends into the contrasting worlds of private and public schooling, examining socioeconomic influences on educational choices and the pivotal role of neighborhood safety. Ellin shares her journey from education to law, offering a unique perspective on balancing societal expectations with personal ambitions, especially as women navigate motherhood, career, and wellness.
Through our conversation, we emphasize the importance of understanding one's rights and the profound influence of self-education on empowerment. From the significance of positive role models in female empowerment to the complexities of parenting and legal challenges, we cover a spectrum of themes. The episode aims to inspire listeners, encouraging them to embrace resilience, self-acceptance, and the power of personal growth. Join us as we highlight diverse experiences, reflecting on the strength found in overcoming life's challenges and the invaluable lessons they impart.
My relationship with my mom is much better than the relationship that she had with her mom A lot more closeness, and now we talk about everything together. But it wasn't that way when I was young and I wish that it was, so I want to give that to my daughter.
Speaker 2:You'll have people talking about changing the world, phenomenal dreams and goals of changing the world. But then I'm like what does your room really look like? If you look at your room, it's a hot mess. Then how the hell are you going to change the world?
Speaker 1:So it's all about educating yourself. Pick up a book, listen to a podcast, listen to a radio, read, read, read. So it's not about being a doctor or a lawyer. It's really about educating yourself about life.
Speaker 2:How bad would it feel if you don't have an A and you go home and you have your face smashed into the wall by a parent? And these things happen especially in like the Indo-European, middle Eastern cultures. Their whole reputation is in the child's grade. If somebody is loyal to you.
Speaker 1:They'll be there for you. If somebody is loyal to you, they're not going to share your secrets. If somebody is loyal to you, they're not going to hold things that have happened to you against you.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone. Today's episode was all about immigration talk. I don't mean by attorney base, but I do mean by personal experiences shared by two women who come from immigrant families. I'm talking about Eileen Martirosyan, who is a personal injury attorney and one of our amazing sponsors. Eileen just surprises me every day and I really genuinely wanted to share her with all of you on this platform. Two women talking about the educational system, and not technically about law per se, but our own personal stories about coming from different countries and how difficult it was to make it and what are the obstacles that we've endured, even as mothers.
Speaker 2:I think Aileen's story is fascinating. She does have teaching credentials and we dived a little bit about public schools, private schools, homeschooling even and, in general, just motherhood. She's such a joy to have around an incredibly knowledgeable human being, and I really wanted to share our conversations with all of you. Whether you are a mom, whether you're a dad, I think that this is going to be very educational for everyone. I love her stance. She's a very truthful, conservative woman with so much respect for her community and her people, has really, really genuine love and respect for her clients as an attorney. She's an amazing attorney and has helped so many family overcome anxieties and disheartening situations. She's somebody in the community who I think anybody and everyone should follow and admire, and I'm very grateful that she reached out and I really am excited for today's conversation. I think that it's going to be very motivational as well.
Speaker 2:We did dive into grit what grit really looks like. She does have an educational background and I thought that it was really important. She asked me a question of how can we teach our kids to have grit, how can an individual learn to have grit, and we dived really deep into grit and what perseverance looks like and what we can do to gain that. So, overall, a very genuine conversation. Enjoy this episode, make sure to subscribe, and I am very grateful for all of you, for all the love, support and genuine respect. Thank you, aileen. It's so nice to have you on today. Thank you for joining us. I'm excited to join you. I know how are you feeling.
Speaker 1:Good, I'm excited to chat with you and get this going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know. So we connected a few months ago and we connected because we are both, you know, I would say, immigrants, you know children of immigrants. We migrated to the country later on. Then we like kind of had to work on our success story. Do you mind sharing a little bit about your success story, because I think you're phenomenal?
Speaker 1:Thank you, Of course. So my parents immigrated from Iran to Germany. We lived in Germany for about a year and then moved to America. So very traditional Armenian values is what I grew up with. I have two older brothers incredibly strict, so it was almost like growing up with four parents. Oh my gosh, my mom and dad came here, had to learn the language, had to learn how to raise us in the American school district. Follow us, my brother was in high school, my other brother was in older elementary school and I was one. So we have age gaps too, which was tough for them, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:What are the age gaps Six years and 11 years 11 years.
Speaker 2:That's like my son and my daughter. Oh, no way. Yeah, noi is 11 and Nazani just turned one. Yeah, so wow, how is that?
Speaker 1:by the way, you know, I think that now I have friends who have big age gaps and it's very different because my brother had a totally different upbringing than I did, being 11 and coming to a new country. Versus being 1 and coming to a new country. You know, I didn't feel the blow as much as somebody who's 11, leaving all his friends, having to adjust to so many different things at the age of 11. I'm certain had a very different impact on him than it did on me. So our relationship has a certain dynamic that I don't think is very common. Now, when I see my friends who have children with big age gaps because they have very similar upbringings no two kids have the same parent they say, right, yes, but for us it was totally different than what I see now. You know, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2:You are so educated, you have so many degrees I would say you mean you were a teacher, now you're an amazing attorney. Tell me a little bit about how that like I always look to the family, I'm like what did her parents do that worked? Because it's important, like education is so important. I feel like a lot of families are lacking that nowadays. Kids are so discouraged they don't want to go to school. What do you think in that traditional household, what did your parents do to allow that love for education?
Speaker 1:You know, from a very young age they followed my schooling closely but didn't really have the capacity to help. They were taught math in a completely different way so they couldn't help me if I had math questions and we weren't in the position to have tutors or to be sent to different programs to supplement the math that I was learning in public school. All throughout elementary I was a terrible student, no, Can you describe that? Terrible Sure.
Speaker 2:It's somewhat relatable to some people. I love that. Okay, yeah, very bad grades.
Speaker 1:C's, D's. I remember being in sixth grade and trying to turn a D into a different letter, B or whatever like add a little curve to it. Yeah, it was not fun and they were very strict, which means there were repercussions for those grades. But they always followed closely what I was doing in school and encouraged me to do better. So getting I would get terrible grades, but I would also. I was very social in class, which is now has worked to my benefit.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah yeah, my profession requires that I be social and get along with a lot of different personalities, but I kept getting talks too much in class. I don't know if you guys, if they still do that All the time yeah. Talks too much in class.
Speaker 2:That's being the reason what we do today. Yeah, so work for my benefit. Did you get detention from talking too much? Oh, yeah, all the time. And did you talk too much? My mom's like you, stop talking.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, why, I don't know. I mean, why were you such a talker? I think maybe because at home I didn't have like people close to my age. I'd go home. My brothers were in a different like age category and where we lived I didn't have. Our second home that we lived in didn't have neighbors my age. Our first apartment that we were in I had a bunch of little girls and boys that were very close in my age, but we moved when I was about six or seven and where we moved to was an older community, so the people there didn't have young children. So when I would go home there was nobody really to play with and socialize with. So perhaps it was because of that when I was in school. Yeah, maybe I'm just thinking of it now.
Speaker 2:And you were the only girl in the household too.
Speaker 1:Two older brothers.
Speaker 2:I mean, that worked out to your benefit. Yeah, yeah, I love that. So so OK, so they monitored your grades, they did. And then what happened? Like, how did you then think that At one point did you think that education was important? I mean, everyone has that hit right.
Speaker 1:That's so true, and I think of this often. And it was really when I entered high school. Yes, yeah, freshman year of high school, it was like a light bulb turned on, like, okay, it matters now. And I don't know what turned that light bulb on. Maybe it was the consistency of my parents constantly telling me that it matters yes, I'm gonna cut you off there 100 times.
Speaker 2:Sorry, but I wanted to add to that. You know how, like sometimes I mean we're, we're fairly like the same age group, but like you know how sometimes parents say, like no matter how many times I told you, you just never got it. Yeah, I think that it's. It's so true. No matter how many times I told you, you just never got it.
Speaker 2:I think that it's so true, like no matter how many times you tell your kid they just need to get it on their own. And I truly try to have a lot of parents understand this no matter how many times you tell them school's important, school's important, they're not going to genuinely feel that until they hit a certain age. And it's kind of like what you're explaining.
Speaker 1:Definitely I didn't think of it that way, and that's so valid. That's so valid. It wasn't until freshman year light bulb Okay, it matters now. And then in high school AP classes, straight A's, 4.0's like it suddenly mattered.
Speaker 2:And I pulled through. You did, and that's so interesting. You said AP classes that many, many little girls and boys will live their life thinking that they're not smart. But it's just like that click factor. It's not because you're not intelligent or you're not smart or you don't have grit, it's that motivational factor, like it just needs to click, like is this important for me to put my effort into it? That's so true, that's so interesting. I love that Learning to apply yourself. And then you went to law school.
Speaker 1:No, first you went to yeah, first I went and got my. Yeah, I got my teaching credentials. My bachelor's degree I did like an integrated program where I was able to do that in four years. I always liked the idea of being a teacher, like I remember lining up my stuffed animals and playing with them that way. And when I was in third grade I remember my family was like glued to the TV watching the OJ trial.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. So I had like an interest in both and I'd created like a little office for myself under my God. So I had like an interest in both and I'd created like a little office for myself under my desk. I'd put like a blanket over and it was like my office space. So I had an interest in both education and law and I did the integrated teacher education program right out of high school and I was very young when I started teaching I was 21. So I thought maybe I could do more. So I got my master's degree at 22 in education and psych.
Speaker 2:That's relatively young to get a master's degree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did it right away.
Speaker 1:I was like let me just do this now, you were so focused I was, I bet I was very determined to achieve my goal. Just go, go, go. I usually do that when I have my eye on the ball, I don't pause and think about it too much, because I feel like if I start thinking about it too much, the thoughts will consume me and it'll give me reason to sit back down. So, yeah, I'm kind of like a goer. I try not to attach words, especially negative words, like oh it's hard, oh it's too much, oh I'm tired to my path, my journey. So that's something that I've been mindful of since I was young.
Speaker 2:So tell us where you started teaching first.
Speaker 1:I started teaching at the Learning Castle. I taught there kindergartners and first graders. They do like a split class and because I had my master's degree, I would kind of. I went from kindergarten to first to first and second, then third, then fourth. And because I had my master's degree, I went from kindergarten to first to first and second, then third, then fourth, and I taught all the way to fifth grade when I was there. How was that experience? I loved it.
Speaker 1:I loved teaching so much and I became very close with the families there, with the parents. I'm still very close with them, the students and the parents. We kind of built a bond that's so special and a lot of them have become family to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:I know I'm sure. Eileen, I have a question for you, since you are in the education system and you're knowledgeable in this. Do you think that a lot of teachers I mean I don't know if they teach this in schools but do you think that emotional intelligence is important for a teacher to have as a skill?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, that's a very good deep question.
Speaker 2:Why do you think that these educational schools are not teaching these? I mean, it's only focused on IQ versus EQ. I think that that's so wrong. What?
Speaker 1:are your thoughts about that? I agree 100%. When I was a teacher, I focused a lot on what was making the children detach when they'd come back from recess or lunch, and I kind of started picking up on the fact that when they're playing and their other children are not playing with them, if they're sitting alone at snack time or sitting alone at lunchtime or having a fight at recess and coming back to the class, it was a lot more difficult to focus and concentrate on the subject matter. So I made an intentional effort to buddy them up or let the hey, you know so-and-so sitting alone at recess, why don't you? You have a really nice group of friends and you look like you're having fun. Go play with so-and-so. And then they'd come back, and it was a totally different learning experience for them when they'd come back, because their confidence had built too, and so it was very important for me to teach that to all of my students you don't like sitting alone, so and making them aware of the feelings that their peers were feeling.
Speaker 1:I think that now it's a lot about numbers. The education system has changed drastically. It's not like it used to be when I was a kid, that homey feeling, or at least public schools. Private schools, of course, are a little bit different, but in public schools it's all about the numbers that you're meeting, or the teachers meeting the standards that they're supposed to be teaching, and I think the focus on those is really taking away from honing into the children and seeing what's affecting them when they're coming into your classroom. Is it how they were at home? Can you help them detach from that when they're in the classroom so that their level of education can increase? It's changed and it's unfortunate Very. Do you feel that?
Speaker 2:it's right to determine if the child is capable by a grade. No, I had terrible grades growing up in grade school, I mean not exactly like I know, oh no.
Speaker 1:Are my report cards online? Don't hire her. She got C's in elementary school. Oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, that was so funny.
Speaker 2:But I feel that's so discouraging to see. Oh, you have all straight A's. Because this is what I've kind of discovered and I'm thinking from a therapeutic background that having straight A's could also be a trauma response. Yeah, like how bad would it feel if you don't have an A and you go home and you have your face smashed into the wall by?
Speaker 1:a parent.
Speaker 2:Right, and these things happen especially in, like the Indo-European, Middle Eastern cultures. Their whole reputation is in the child's grade. So that's besides the point. My thing is like why are we determining the child's worth by a grade? Why are we doing this? Where did we go wrong? Where is the emotional intelligence in that? I don't know. That's like a deeper, deeper question, I know, but it's so unfortunate that these things are happening in these educational systems. It really is.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you ask me, it'd be much better to grade the children on effort, yeah, and well-roundedness, as opposed to just what grade they're getting on their test. Maybe they had a bad day, maybe something's going on at home that we can help with, you know, providing. I think of this often and I think it would be so nice to have therapists at school to help kids who are troubled at home navigate these situations, like if they're being abused when they're getting bad grades. Who can they talk to? Who can help? How can we, as how can educators not me anymore, but how can educators tap into that in a legal capacity and help, as opposed to just simply submit a report? Oh, this child had.
Speaker 1:I did my teaching credentials at a public school and there were unfortunately it was a very low socioeconomic district and there were children that were in foster care and were getting abused. That we learned of and it was just about reporting. I mean, how sad is that? I mean you just have to, you have an obligation as an educator to report it. Then what? It's sad that your duty ends there. What do?
Speaker 2:you think that what skills, besides the emotional intelligence, should the teacher have to be able to have that empathy for the kids and understanding?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question and I think it goes to what I always advocate for is do what you love. If these teachers loved what they did, they would do much better. Don't just become a teacher because it was easier for you to do that than something else. Tap into what you love and if you have a passion for educating or if you have a passion for children, then follow that journey for yourself, because I think that the disconnect comes from not loving what they do these educators or trying to push a particular agenda. Some of these educators have an agenda that's self-fulfilling and that's where the problem really lies. Can you tell us what that self-fulfilling and that's where the problem really lies.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us what that self-fulfilling looks like?
Speaker 1:If they have particular political views that they want to— Like public schools right now whatever is happening. Exactly. If they have a particular view on politics, that should stay at home with them instead of being pressed onto our students. And the students should just really be nurtured and cared for and taught.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not. Politics has no space in education, has no space in education, education, I mean, this is what I feel. I feel like teachers are second mothers.
Speaker 1:I agree, and it's not unless you feel that way that you're going to do a good job. Yeah, yeah, you have to take that to do a good job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you have to take that Like being a mom yeah, even if you're not Exactly the image of parenting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I was very young when I started teaching I was only 21, but still had that love for what I did and love for the children and the passion and the compassion for them, and so I think that that's what's lacking in some of these educators yes. And also, I think that a teacher has to have a good mental health, absolutely. Oh my God, that's brilliant. Why don't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you cannot. It's the same thing with clinicians. There's such a protocol right First you have to pass your law and ethics and things that are sort. But teachers should also have the same agenda. And I also going back to what you were saying about how you were so young. You became a teacher, but you had this love and this feeling of nurture that comes from your mother. So if you had a pretty decent household, that kind of transfers into the relationships you're going to have with your students and other people. So if you've had a pretty messed up life and then you decide to go and be a teacher, every little thing that a child does it's going to irk you the wrong way. Therefore, it's going to bleed into the way you teach.
Speaker 1:I think that's so true.
Speaker 2:I think that mental health is so important in teachers Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Solid.
Speaker 2:That's what I have to tell you. I respect the older class teachers, like the American women with the cat earrings or the dog, or like it was Christmas time You'd have like the teachers wearing Christmas earrings. I think I think everybody will know what I'm talking about If they went to school in the 90s. You know I had a Miss Perry, I had a Mrs Snell. She used to wear like earrings of Snells and it was so nurturing Like they felt like our moms.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Like the warmth that they exude when they're wearing their Christmas vests and their ugly Christmas sweaters that they don't think is ugly. They don't think it, but they love it and it brings so much warmth and joy they don't think it's ugly.
Speaker 2:I know the best with the dress shirts. I will never forget those days. It was like, yeah, they were like second moms.
Speaker 1:That's so funny, you brought that up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like what happened to those days? I don't know, I miss those days, I miss those days too, and luckily for us, our private school it's all teachers like that, and I gravitated towards this school just because of that feeling, because I wanted my kids to have that feeling. But tell us this, and we're going to get into law because I know it's such an interesting topic too. But what do you think is the sole difference between private and public? Since you worked in?
Speaker 1:both. I have a hard time saying this out loud, but I just think it's the caliber of teachers, and I think that, as a director of a private school, you really focus on the quality of educator that you're hiring, yeah, whereas in a public school that criteria doesn't necessarily exist. It's lower, you mean Lower standards. I think that in public school it's just the check marks that you meet. You know, like, do you have this degree? Yes, did you interview? Well? Yes, and that's really it. Whereas in public schools, I feel like, because they're smaller and they're run by people who either generally they're run by people who own them, so they have a deeper connection to their work product that's their baby. The schools are their babies, and so they really take time, effort, energy and choose with love who they're hiring to teach these children, and I think that's the difference. What about family?
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Like is there a different class of families?
Speaker 1:Oh, so yes and no. When I was a teacher, there were families who were not, you know, barely making ends meet, but pooling together money to put their children in a private school because the area that they lived in didn't have highly ranked educational schools, and so they were. So, in a sense, yes, right, because it's people who prioritize education sometimes more you know, yeah, so going in a circle the answer is yeah. It's people who yeah.
Speaker 2:And I say this with so much such warmth. I don't mean to be, because it does. It comes off as judgmental, but at the end of the day it's like you're going to offend people anyway. So it doesn't matter, but it is. It is a different class, because and I've noticed this from just my professional background too that I feel like people that tend to prioritize education lean more towards private. It doesn't mean that public school parents don't. Maybe it's like a affording factor for them. It's not a lot of people, it is expensive.
Speaker 2:It is like crazy expensive, but majority of families that I've met kind of lean towards private because it's a healthier choice for their family. Do you think that? Well, first of all, let me tell you this If you have a first-time mom, like her daughter is getting ready or her son is getting ready to school, they come to you. They're like Aileen, what am I going to do? Should I go to public first or private?
Speaker 1:What is your advice? So lately I've been advocating more and more for private schools, because so many Armenians who live in really good neighborhoods are actually putting their kids in private. And I'm like, what are you guys doing? Like, let's use the resources that are available to us. The public schools are actually good public schools in certain districts that a lot of Armenians live in, but they're all gravitating towards the private schools. So I would say it really depends on where you live and what public school your kids are assigned to. Based on where you live, because some public schools are highly ranked and some are not and what I mean is by the education level and also the neighborhood that it's in. Do you feel safe and comfortable living also the neighborhood that it's in you know, or do you feel safe and comfortable living in the neighborhood that you live in, putting your kid in that public school, or are you afraid that? I hate to say it, but are you afraid of safety issues?
Speaker 2:Are you not just yeah, not just education Gun issues in schools nowadays?
Speaker 1:So it really depends on where they live. I have friends who live in areas where I'm like you know what? You should consider a charter school. If you can't afford a public school, apply to the charter school. I have friends that live in great areas and they're putting their kids in private and I'm like reconsider those public schools. There's a reason why they're nationally ranked, you know. So it's circumstantial. Really, are you going to put your daughter to private? I don't want to. Why? I really don't want because I had such a good public school experience and so did my husband. Went to public school our entire education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're a product of public, as I.
Speaker 1:And so I don't want to. I'd prefer to do a public school, also for diversity, like you mentioned earlier. Like is it a different pool of people in private and public, and it is so. I would love for my child to grow up experiencing the same diversity that I experienced, which really provide me with a wealth of knowledge that I'm able to use now in my career, and I'd love for her to have that too. What schools?
Speaker 2:do you like public? What are you looking for? The.
Speaker 1:La Cunada school district is incredible. It really is so they're doing phenomenal, I know, but so many people in La Cunada are putting their kids in private.
Speaker 2:Because they have aunts and uncles who live there. They live in freaking God knows where and they use their address from them. People, you guys are insane. Yeah, I know they're like wait, you don't live in Laguna. How's your school? A kid going to this school and they're like my uncle lives there I'm like, oh my gosh kind of okay, so tell us okay, so, teacher. And then boom, you're an attorney. How did that happen?
Speaker 1:oh my gosh so I was young when I became a teacher and I got my master's at 22 and I was considering getting my PhD in education and doing administrative work in the educational world. But at the time they were actually laying off teachers, so the educational system was kind of cutting back and I was like, OK, if I go to school for four more years and get my PhD in education, what chance do I have of getting a really good job really quickly? Little education. What chance do I have of getting a really good job really quickly? Little. So I thought what degree can I get that I can do a variety of things with. That won't limit me, and I'm like let me get a JD, I know. Whatever, that's the next one. So Was it hard? It was. It wasn't an easy journey at all. It was, um, what's difficult?
Speaker 2:It was challenging. Tell us about that.
Speaker 1:I didn't know any attorneys in my circle, not in my family, not in, not as friends, so there was nobody I could really go to with application process and you went to Pepperdine. That's a pretty prestige school. I went to Pepperdine for my master's and then I went to UNLV.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ah, I thought you went to law, but still, it's still a prestige school?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to also incorporate education and law, and there was a program at UNLV called Kids Court School and it taught children who were either victims or witnesses of crimes how the courtroom process works, and we would teach them one day and then the the next day we would do mock trial with them. Oh my, I know it's such a beautiful program. Dr Rebecca Nathanson is still running that program today out of UNLV and it's changed.
Speaker 2:I would love to interview her.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, she's so great. Connect me to her. I would love that. Yeah, she's so passionate, so great. Connect me to her. I would love that yeah.
Speaker 2:She's so passionate. She created this program I love things like that Really From scratch, so it's her own creativity. I wonder how she thought of that.
Speaker 1:She was at UCLA and I think it might've been like her, her PhD. What is it called? The? The like the final assignment they have to submit.
Speaker 2:Oh, the dissertation? I think so, but ask her for sure. Well, no, phd is dissertation.
Speaker 1:Dissertation. Ask her when you interview her. Yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 2:I'll read her dissertation. I know it's like super long Probably, but I would love to. I'm, like, fascinated with scholars. She's a scholar, basically.
Speaker 1:I met her, I fell in love with her. We bonded immediately and I did my first internship in personal injury and that's how I pivoted to the PI world. But still I use my knowledge and education every day with clients.
Speaker 2:With your work Every day. How so Tell us that's so interesting, because it's so different.
Speaker 1:It's so different but it's so similar. You have to educate your clients. I educate them every day. I talk to them about the process because a lot of whether or not they're immigrants or been born and raised in America, they don't know to the level that we do about the personal injury world. So I like to educate them so that they make the best decisions for themselves from day one. A lot of people don't know that if you don't treat, you're not going to get the same compensation. If you're in pain, you need to treat. Otherwise it's as though you didn't treat at all and you're not going to get the same compensation. So it's a lot of educating my clients and teaching them like they're my students in the field, and I think that that's what really sets me apart from a lot of other attorneys. To be honest with you, say it, yeah, I really think so, because we connect when we have these conversations.
Speaker 1:A lot of men, a lot of even women actually, we have a hard time saying when we're in pain and I kind of have to break that down. So there comes my psychology degree. It's like don't be embarrassed, don't be shy. If you don't say it now, you're going to be taken complete advantage of by defense. If you don't go to the doctors and you say, I'm fine, because you're used to that, they're going to pay you very little at the end of your case. This is the time to say it. So you're experiencing it, explain it, and I really have to break it down for them that way. Because they want to play. They're used to playing the tough guy, the breadwinner of the home, so they have a hard time saying, oh my God, I was just rear-ended and I can't go back to work tomorrow. They want to push through because that's their mentality. So I have to break it down for them, talk with them, and then it really changes the trajectory of their case, ellie needs also fear.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's so much fear in, like Middle Eastern cultures, indo-european cultures, that, oh, what if this happens? What if that happens? It's like they never take advantage of what is theirs, what's right, what their right is, what's given to them. That's very true. That's very true. It's so interesting, right? It's always fear. Majority of the time. It's like fear that wach, as we say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you break it down for them, that is exactly what it is, because they're afraid. It's also money too, right, Because there's. Oh, if I say I'm scared, what if the doctor puts me on disability and then I can't go to work? Or what if I have to miss work because of my doctor's appointment and my boss fires me? So it's fear and not knowing which is where. Well then, you have a disability discrimination case if your boss fires you for your doctor's appointment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, there are so many laws and regulations to protect people, and this is why I feel that education is so important. When I say education, I don't mean people going to school and becoming doctors and lawyers, but reading about their rights, especially if you're new to the country. Read about your rights Absolutely. Like people are afraid of the most silliest things ever. Like there's a thing called defamation in this country. If somebody goes after your name, slaughters your name, you can sue. Like I tell my clients this all the time don't worry, just just learn about laws and regulations so that you're able to be a little bit more confident and leave live freely. This country is all about that, even though I feel that you know free speech is promoted but not supported, but that's a whole different topic oh yeah but yeah, like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, read, learn read.
Speaker 2:About research I, but that's a whole different topic. Oh yeah, but yeah, like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn read learn, read, about research.
Speaker 1:I know and that's such a good point that you bring up because I was just having this conversation with somebody very close to me. They were telling me about somebody's story and I was like, look, if you're telling me so that I could feel sorry for them I can't keep feeling sorry for this person because they need to help themselves so I could tell you what they could do to get out of the rut that they're in, because I've been in so many ruts before. You know, you don't get anywhere in life without having to experience difficulties, challenges, hurdles. I can offer my opinion and suggestion on how they can help themselves. I can't feel sorry for them, so it's all about educating yourself. Pick up a book how they can help themselves. But I can't feel sorry for them, so it's all about educating yourself. Pick up a book, listen to a podcast, listen to a radio, read, read, read. So it's not about being a lawyer or an attorney but really I'm sorry a doctor or a lawyer. It's really about educating yourself about life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, being a more well-rounded person Also, it's good for your kids. Yeah, I mean like when you're an immigrant, you're not aware of a lot of things like all these vaccines that are pushed onto kids and all that stuff If you're not aware they're going to control your kid. Why would you want the society to teach your kids versus you? It has to come from the home it has to.
Speaker 1:The first school is your home.
Speaker 2:It has to come from the home it has to. The first school is your home, so I don't know. I always advocate for people to educate themselves and you know moms too younger, older, whatever, like it's never too late to pick up a book and read something.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You talk a lot about some really cool books, like the five-second rule book. You've read that one. Make your bed. You talk about that one a lot. These are things that I read. I didn't know I mean it? Didn't come to me. I read that and I implement the little things. It comes from little things too right, Implement little things and it makes such a big difference in your life.
Speaker 2:Like honestly, yes, you'll have people talking about changing the world. They have these dreams, phenomenal dreams, and goals of changing the world. But then I'm like what does your room really look like? If you look at your room, it's a hot mess. Then how the hell are you going to change the world if you can't even change one thing in your room? You know, but that also comes from a parent. You'll have people say, oh, I read this book and it was about making your bed. Your entire life, your entire life, your mother was asking you to make your bed yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2:You give credit to people like david goggins and jordan peterson. Oh, they said, make your bed. But your mom has been rooting for you to clean and make your bed your whole life. Not once did you take that into consideration. That's so true. But, yeah, like, everything stems from the little things. Like, if you want to change the world and be this big person like, look at your surrounding first. Like, what can you change in your surrounding? What did you change in your surrounding? Have you ever changed your surrounding? Oh, yeah, you have All the time. Have you had stinky friends before? I still do.
Speaker 1:Why are they in your life? No, I meant, I still change my oh.
Speaker 2:I thought you meant you still have stinky friends.
Speaker 1:I'm like Ellie. What, thank God? No, because it's very difficult to do it once the first time, to be like you know what this person is not. I don't want to say serving me, because it sounds yucky to say it that way, but it's energy transfer. It's energy transfer.
Speaker 2:Duality you give me I give you, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:Duality you give me, I give you, yeah, and it took a while for me to get to a point where it became easier for me to be like you know what this person's energy in my life is not doing any good for me. I can't do like the negative talks or, like you know, in moderation I mean, we're friends in moderation you want to talk about things that are bugging, that's different, but when their whole being is like a negativity, I can't do it. Yeah, and so it drains you.
Speaker 2:It's so draining. What do you think a good, what's a good quality that you look for in a friend? Loyalty, vladimir Putin's favorite. I'm fascinated by the guy's brain, by the way, I don't know what people think of him. I don't care, but I think he's incredibly intelligent and every interview in translation that I've watched, they've asked him what do you look for in a person and what's not forgivable? He says trail. Oh yeah, like he's always, and I'll always remember that it's for me too by the way.
Speaker 2:I concur. Preach to the choir. I think that loyalty why is loyalty important for you.
Speaker 1:Everything else comes later. So if somebody is loyal to you, they'll be there for you. If somebody is loyal to you, they're not going to share your secrets. If somebody is loyal to you, they're not going to hold things that have happened to you against you or things that you've gone through against you.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Have you ever had?
Speaker 1:that friend that's like do you remember when that? And you're like yeah, that tape recorder. Yeah, I love it, that tape recorder.
Speaker 1:And it's like why Unless you're trying to make me feel bad why would you bring up something Right so that all stems from loyalty, even in not just in friends, but also in my team, like at work, in the people that I hire? That's the number one thing I look for, and I feel like you can tell from the energy that they exude. At an interview. I'm like, okay, this person's and I've gotten better at it, but you can pick up on whether or not they're going to be loyal to you. You can teach the rest, you can teach the skill. If they have grit and loyalty. That's all you need. Those are the two things to make the formula work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. Why is grit important for you?
Speaker 1:No matter what, they're going to aim for the best. They're going to aim to do their best and they're going to come up with you Persevere, persevere, yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly what kind of a friend are you?
Speaker 1:I'm a loyal friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a good friend, I'm somebody that you could call at midnight. I'm somebody that you can. I'll be there, you know. Yeah, I strive for it, and I'm a person that doesn't have a million friends. I have a few very good friends that have been in my life for many years. Of course, my door is always open and I'm, you know, meeting so many people nowadays and I love bringing them into my life too, but I prefer having quality over quantity when it comes to friendships.
Speaker 1:When did you learn that I've always been that way. It's interesting, I've never been. The oh, numbers are more important ever since a very young age. Do you learn that I've always been that way? It's interesting, I've never been. The oh, numbers are more important ever since a very young age.
Speaker 2:Do you think that it's important for a woman to have friends? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We need somebody to complain about our husbands too, that are not our husbands yeah.
Speaker 2:But I feel like it's so hard to have friendships nowadays.
Speaker 1:It is because life has also become so busy. Life has changed. I think of this often. You know, we have so many more social obligations, too, than our parents did. A lot of our jobs require networking, whereas back in the day it wasn't so much that way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because one lady decided to fight for equality. Yeah, why Seriously decided to fight for equality? Yeah, why?
Speaker 1:Seriously, I was better off. Why did you have to do that to me? Oh my gosh, I would have been fine.
Speaker 2:Have you seen those reels online? It's like it's Ms Dracht and then you meet the person that was fighting for a woman's rights.
Speaker 1:I send those to my husband all the time Like what the hell?
Speaker 2:Why no, I mean. But then people say, well, you wouldn't have a right to vote. Like, yeah, we would have made something happen, yeah that's true, but not to this extent where now men can't make that amount of money to support like one. I mean. Yes, they can, but it's hard for a lot of families.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:The woman has to work too to be able to survive.
Speaker 1:The dual income is a thing, it is a thing.
Speaker 2:So now we're like pushed into, stepping out of our natural roles, and so that's why I always talk about this. I'm like you know it is. It's friendship is affected by all of this.
Speaker 1:Truly, yeah, honestly it is. It's because we have to do certain things in order to get life going. Like we have to go to the kid's birthday. I mean, you don't want your kid to be the only one not going to all the birthdays, now all the classmates invite them to every birthday. You have like 12 birthdays a month and then you have like weddings, you have baby showers, you have your friend's housewarming. You have so much social obligation, which is why it's important to kind of narrow that down to what's really important to you. Who's really important to you? Be selective.
Speaker 2:It's important? I think it is too, because then you can't show up for everybody. Do you believe in that, saying women can't have it all, or do you think women can have it all? I think we can have it all. Tell me about that. Do you disagree? Yeah, yeah, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course it is. Tell me yours, I'll tell you you. Tell me yours, I'll tell you mine. Sure, I think it's difficult, but I also like think that I recently learned to take that word out of my vocabularies and not use it to describe my the can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not the can't. It's hard, it's difficult. I don't like using those words anymore so I had to teach myself Don't keep saying that, because then you're going to manifest that. So I think you can work and you can be a good mom. You just have to find the balance. And a good friend and a good daughter and a good sister. You just have to find the balance in your schedule. So if it requires cutting some stuff out, you need to learn what it is that you're okay with slicing off. You know, and if you are maintaining these good friendships, they're not going to mind if you miss their events At the core of it exactly At the core of it.
Speaker 1:They're still a good friend. So that's really what I've learned. Like you know what I can do it Is it difficult? At times it is, but I try not to focus on the difficulty of it and kind of just move through the motions. And I know that some phases in my life it's going to be a lot more difficult to balance it all than other phases, and I've just learned to accept that. And by accepting that it's like I know that this is just a phase and my baby is not going to need me this much when she's off to school and once I establish my really good book of business, I'm not going to be chained to my job either. So the phases come and they go. So that's how I see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that capability piece I definitely agree with. That we are very strong. It's in our essence to be very strong and obviously because we can also tolerate the most pain. So, yes, but I always look at the mental health piece, that women are so moody nowadays.
Speaker 2:And it's because we're trying to jug and like literally just juggle so many things. There's so many balls in the air. You're like, okay, there's the work, then there's a daycare, then there's family life, then there's cooking, then there's cleaning. I don't know. I just feel like that juggle is so much that it's not necessarily like we can't do it. It's just the piece of it that it's hard to do so many things and be content and be in your natural nature. Does that make sense? It does, because it creates a different mood. We're always moody and we are, I don't care what anybody wants it Like. Women are so moody nowadays, constantly on the go, constantly on the go. And, by the way, the research for daycare is phenomenal to me, have you been?
Speaker 2:I mean, are you following Very little? There's a woman here. Her name is Erica Comesar. I'm trying to get her to come on the podcast.
Speaker 1:She's in New.
Speaker 2:York. She's phenomenal and she's LCSW and she has done so much research on the negative effects of putting your child into daycare really at a young age, and how your child is more prone to having anxiety and depression because that attachment is not developed properly. Really, what's young, what's considered like from from birth? Oh, like. It's different when a child is like five and six and they go to school and kindergarten.
Speaker 2:But when you put a kid into daycare and they're like five, six months, my child has not even formed proper attachments yet and it's been ripped away from home and in the nurture of people that most likely are not going to have a proper bond with this kid in the first place. I see so the first because, look, it's very deep. It's very deep for me. Who is your first relationship ever in your life? It's your mom.
Speaker 2:The way you form your relationship with mom is going to form how you show up with people, how your relationships are going to be with people. So if your relationship with mom is somewhat compromised, it's going to show up in your life, it's going to bleed into your relationships. That's why, when I say can't, it's not because we physically can't and we shouldn't, but there's a bigger picture there that if being a mom is so important like that's dear to my heart and I think a lot of women have really forgotten the true meaning behind that that that's, besides your career and juggling everything, the most important role in your life is to give life and to, you know, raise tomorrow's society. And if you're juggling 20 other things with that, it kind of compromises that.
Speaker 1:I see what you're saying. I do you know because you can't.
Speaker 2:It's the reality. We're not there full time for our kids no.
Speaker 1:So Unfortunately we don't have two years of maternity leave like we don't.
Speaker 2:It's not Europe. It's not Europe. You know what is it in? Like Switzerland, I think it is. Yeah, paternal leave, oh they have paternal also and grandparents get paid. They get paid to watch their grandchildren. Really, that's a recent data I was looking at. I think it's Switzerland, sweden or somewhere, something S basically, and I was like Not USA, though. Not the USA, but my son's. Like mom, we should move here and let Tati Papi they'll get paid for watching.
Speaker 1:Your son's like brilliant, yeah, one with many US citizens who think that way. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was like wow, blown away. But that's my whole reasoning behind the can't People think I I mean like physically we can do anything, but it compromises our health, like so many autoimmune diseases now amongst women, thyroid issues, lupus issues. It's like what's going on? It's all these stressors because we're trying to juggle so many things. It's tough. What does a man do? Man is a provider behind the desk or construction worker, whatever it is, but it's one. One position that's to provide food for the family. Us, that's a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we can't peel back from it. I feel like it's, biologically speaking, easier for a man when… Simple thing, like when they hear a baby cry they don't get the same response as a woman does, so it's easier for them to balance than for a woman for sure, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:So that's, I don't know. I feel that. And also, by the way, going back to the loyalty piece, it does compromise how you show up with friends.
Speaker 1:I can see that. Yeah, the energy piece you're just so drained.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see that. E Energy. Yeah, just so drained. Yeah, I can see that. Eileen, what do you feel about competition?
Speaker 1:I think that healthy competition is a good thing. You know you can use it to drive you and it's. You can be competitive but still be happy for your friends or your colleagues. Because that's how I am. I'm very competitive in my work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like if she only knew how I was. Oh my God, I'm very competitive in my work. Lokia was like if she only knew how I was. Oh my God, I'm so competitive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's my driving force, Like, oh, this, wow, then that's doable. You know, like I have a friend at work and sometimes we talk about things together and I tell him I said, look, don't be pissed, Use this, it will drive you and you'll be next. Drive you and you'll be next. And it's true, you know, like it's a driving force for some of us. I mean like if you're lacking that, then you're probably also missing, like grit, because that's why we work so hard, you know, because we're like, okay, what next?
Speaker 1:What can we do next? What can we do better? So it's healthy with yourself and I know some people say like only compete against yourself and the older version of you. But I, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, everybody has these great words, but my fifth grade teacher with the earrings of a Snell, mrs Snell taught me to always question authority and that from I'm 40 years old, I took that everywhere with me. I said Mrs Snell taught me to question authority. So now when I hear a person say something that's like wow, but I'm like, hold on a second, you've got to question that Like I've literally learned to question authority. That has saved me from so much trouble, by the way.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, you have to. So when they say compete with your older self or the version of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I hear I've been seeing a lot of that. No, and it's not me.
Speaker 2:You know who my competition was You're going to laugh? I'm all Clooney. Oh my gosh, I love her.
Speaker 1:Gosh.
Speaker 2:I grew up competing, competing with her, but it was I didn't know her, she doesn't know me like she was still a celebrity. She's still a celebrity. She's, you know, human rights attorney and she was in george clooney's wife at the. At the time she was just amal abdullah. Something I knew her of her at that time I knew of her because, I was looking for a role model.
Speaker 2:I was working at the hospital and um during my 20s, I was literally the only armenian girl working at providence holy. During my 20s, I was literally the only Armenian girl working at Providence Holy Cross Hospital. I was in the registration department and I would see Aileen, these young Indian doctor girls. They would walk by with their white coats and I would just be sitting there. I mean I'm young, I'm like 19 years old, 20 years old, and I'm registering somebody for surgery and I would call Dr Shirakakar. I will never forget her name.
Speaker 2:She was so beautiful long hair, brown skin and she would just walk over and she would just give like her chart and I would just look at her like I'm literally like going to be like you one day. I don't care what I'm going to do, but you motivate me to be a better person. I love that and I love that ego in people. Like I never want that ego to die in people, so that competitiveness is so important for me. So how did Amal Clooney get in the picture is that? I looked at her. I'm like she sits well, she talks eloquently, phenomenal dresser, I mean, she's just everything that I aspire to be.
Speaker 1:And I literally like look up to her. What a great role model to have. She is a great role I wish not the kardashians.
Speaker 2:I wish that. I wish that younger women can look up to women like you. Yeah, thank you I do because it's important. You know, like living traditionally, doing the right thing, learning, learning, good mom, good wife, like all these things are missing now. Everything is eye candy now. It's like who has a bigger behind, who has bigger lips? Let me look up to her. It's like no, no, no, no, no, no. That's the competition I'm talking.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I love it, and it's healthy and it drives us to do better. Look at what it did to you, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you saw that. Did you have anyone you looked up to?
Speaker 1:I, throughout my life there have been different people that I have looked up to. To be honest with you, there hasn't been I can't say like there's been a celebrity figure that I've looked up to per se, but throughout my life there have been different people. Like when I was a teacher, I would look up to the director of the school.
Speaker 2:You know Somebody in a hierarchy right.
Speaker 1:Yes, and when I was in law school, I looked up to Dr Rebecca Nathanson, who I hope that you interview soon, and so it's always been somebody in the field that I've been in. I do look like right now it's my current partner. Yeah, absolutely Like. He's built a firm of 450 people successful. Who is he? Um, kevin dinesh. Yeah, he is a powerhouse of a human and still runs this firm beautifully to a t and is still a good family man, good husband to his wife and good father to his children. Um, and still has fun in his life and balance. You know, the balance is there for him and so it doesn't necessarily even have to be a woman that we look up to right no 100.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and my competition is generally men I'm generally like, oh my god, how did you get that? Yeah, now in my profession. Yeah, back in. I mean, it's like I love that like, yeah, like I said earlier, like it was whoever was in my like the director of the school and then the dean she was a sitting dean at the time, rebecca and then now it's you know, the people in my industry the current partner of the office, and it changes. It changes as I morph, as I grow.
Speaker 2:I also look up to stay-at-home moms Me too Because it's so hard. And my grandma oh, I love that. Yeah, I forgot to mention. I was like wait, because my grandma she was 26 when my grandpa died she raised five kids on her own and so she's like was phenomenal, like so strong for her kids, like it's these types of women, you know, that just inspire you so much.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. Stay inspire you so much. Absolutely yeah. Stay at home, moms every after every Saturday and Sunday at home.
Speaker 2:I'm like damn who goes to stay at home? Moms, I stay home four days and it's so hard. No-transcript. You're just mentally drained because you're on alert all the time, like lizard brain, like constantly. What if she? Oh my God, I have to wash the bottle.
Speaker 1:Where's she now Like? Did you close the bathroom door? Oh my God, she's going to go stand in the door.
Speaker 2:Is your daughter like that oh?
Speaker 1:yeah, she's so active. It's hilarious, she's so cute. But I have to watch her like every second. I can't take my eyes off of her for two seconds. She ends up literally standing on top of the toilet with like looking inside. She's so funny. She's trying to get her hands in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's very curious so disgusting, very.
Speaker 1:She's like. It looks like a bowl of soup to me, like an extra large bowl of soup. How does she look like Maura, you or your husband? Oh my God, she's a duplicate of my husband. Mine too. All that work. Copy paste, print like literally yes. From the moment she came out she's like a replica of him, but she acts like me, especially now.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. You said that it goes for my next as I formulate my questions as we talk. How would you show up in a relationship with your daughter differently than how you were with your mom or your mom was with you?
Speaker 1:Good question. My mom was very back in the day. I feel like it was more common for moms to be authoritative figure instead of a friend. And I'm not saying be a friend like your kids, be best friend. Your kids are going to make their own friends, so but be more friendly with them so that it can open conversations that were incredibly difficult for me to have with my mom when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1:difficult for me to have with my mom when I was a kid. Why do you think that is Because there was a wall, you know, and I think it's because I've thought about it a lot, and I think it's because of her relationship with her mother.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my relationship with my mom is much better than the relationship that she had with her mom A lot more closeness, and now we talk about everything together. But it wasn't that way when I was young and I wish that it was, so I want to give that to my daughter.
Speaker 2:Do you think that wall has impacted you in any way?
Speaker 1:Yes, I do. I think that it makes it harder for me to open up generally.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, but you opened up to me so like well, I've learned. Yes.
Speaker 1:It's a skill that I've learned. Yes, it's a skill that I've learned. You teach yourself, you do, and to whom you know. That's what I was talking to my friend about recently too. You can open up, but to whom are you opening up to, and that's you know. Maybe it's not a bad thing, because I was very closed off with people and then now I open up much. It's much more. It's easier for me to open up to people, but I'm selective who I'm opening up with and on what topics. So it's different.
Speaker 2:So you would want a more open friendship relationship?
Speaker 1:Definitely. I want her to be able to tell me hey, so-and-so introduced me to this or so-and-so was doing that. I want to be able to be the first person to guide her. So-and-so was doing that. I want to be able to be the first person to guide her. I want her to openly tell me things that she's experiencing so that I can guide her, because, as you said earlier, it comes from the home. The home is so important and I want to be able to be the one to establish those standards and regulations for her too, and teach her how to navigate In some of these difficult situations. Growing up, I navigated individually and independently because of my relationship with mom, and so I want to be the one to be the first person to be like hey, okay, that happened. What are some options we can explore?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then, when pain is presented to them, they don't hold that in. Yeah, they can easily come and say mom, you know, yeah, Because it. I mean like, look, it takes one try. You know, like that moment when your kid comes to you and you're just emotionally overwhelmed and you don't open those doors, it takes that one time for them to kind of like shut those doors and never to come to you again. Or if you judge them, or if you judge them yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Judgment could be good, though, but not in that judgmental way.
Speaker 1:Not in a critical way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, soft, yeah. Speaking of softness, what do you think about goodie bags?
Speaker 1:Goody bags. What do you mean? What do you mean Like goodie bags to go home, like at parties, soft goodie bags. I'll tell you why. Yeah, tell me why Like at a birthday party. Okay, tell me, where did this come from? I can't stand goodie bags. I don't blame you, it's annoying and they're all trash. It all goes into the trash. It bags. I don't blame you, it's annoying and they're all trash. It all goes into the trash.
Speaker 2:It's filled with like dollar toys that like or slime that are gonna ruin your car and like it's that kid's birthday.
Speaker 1:It's not a kid's birthday.
Speaker 2:It's that kid's birthday. Why does every other kid have to have a gift? Oh, I get it. That's a good point. I didn't think of it that way. Or like when your child is third place, yeah, why do they get a prize.
Speaker 1:They're third place. They need to be first place. Why are you dumb crying?
Speaker 2:You don't get a prize, you're third place. I'm serious. Think about that from a deeper perspective I have, I know they're softies because of things. Then they get mad.
Speaker 1:I didn't get a goody bag Participation award.
Speaker 2:Please. You're in fourth place, kid.
Speaker 1:You're in fourth place. Work harder, work harder, do better.
Speaker 2:A fourth place should not get an award. Oh, it's going to hurt their confidence. No, it's not. You're actually ruining their life by giving him these things, because people hurt other people on the outside, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I hate goodie bags. I hate goodie bags. I don't blame you, I mean, they never have anything cool in them. Anyways, from what I've, ever gotten.
Speaker 2:I get the shitty goodie bags you do. Oh my gosh, I mean I get that point Definitely. Yeah, it's like it's it's your child's birthday. Why does my child have to have a gift too? Yeah.
Speaker 1:What's the point of?
Speaker 2:a goodie bag, it's, it's setting. See, elon musk talked about this a few days ago, I believe he was. It was on a podcast with trump and he, I believe. But he was talking about how we are setting um, setting up kids for failure. Like even in the educational system, the, the capacity for our expectations for kids to do better has been dumbed down, like it's decreased substantially. We don't have like high expectations of kids anymore and it all starts from these damn goodie bags, like what?
Speaker 2:is the point. Look, it's deeper. We don't have that time frame for me to go like all into it, but it matters, like why should my kid have a goodie bag on your kid's birthday? It's your kid's birthday, your kid needs to have all the birthday. My kid doesn't need a gift, I get it.
Speaker 1:You're kind of talking about expectation too. It is, it's unrealistic. Then they end up expecting everything, then you go to a market and they want this and that with no effort. That's what it is. It is Expectation with zero effort, and that's where you're going with this, and I totally see it.
Speaker 2:It's like I'm going on birthday, I get to go home with something, or I don't have to win to get an award, I don't have to do my best. Yeah, like you're in fifth place, but your mom is waiting for you with a you know plate of fruit and an award. Oh honey, but you're still my winner. No, lady, he's not a winner and you should not teach him that. Let him fight, let him have that healthy competition to be number one. That's what gets people. This is what's going to get Armenians to win this damn war.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:It's this pushing your kids to be the best educators ever Architects, lawyers, doctors it's not going out there and screaming on top Like I always think about this. I'm like what can we do as people to kind of win as a culture? It's that it's things like this. Look at Jews. Look at you know the statistics. Number one it was about success but income. It was Jews and then it was Indians. And then it was Asians and then Iranians, obviously which Iranians can be Jews as well but where were we on that list?
Speaker 1:I don't even know we're all so small. How was it calculated? I don't know. I'll send it to you.
Speaker 2:I'm interested in seeing that I will send it you. I'll send it to you. I will send it.
Speaker 1:It was so fascinating, but come on now the cultures that help lift each other are the cultures that are generally on top of these lists. You know they help each other succeed, but guess what? They're also very competitive, and I'm not generalizing, I'm just speaking of the people that I know that are parts of these cultures that you just mentioned, that are on top of this list, and what they do is they compete, but they also support, and that's what we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2:Yes, but they also have healthy expectations from their kids. Exactly Again, it starts from those goodie bags.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those participation, words and cleaning the rooms. Yeah, oh my gosh, it's true, the little things, the little the little things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know how these goodie bags came about, but when you said soft, I'm like this is a perfect topic. Yeah, softies, we're raising a bunch of infant adults. No, infant adults, it is. So what tell me? What do you think? What? What makes a good attorney, first of all, besides, obviously, the law degree and experience, but what do you think like a true?
Speaker 1:Very good question. I think that being personable has taken me so far in this industry, you mean with clients and defense attorneys.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, why with defense attorneys?
Speaker 1:Because I've learned when to be combative and when not to be combative. And those who are always combative and are always fighting instead of making friends with defense counsel I mean, this isn't the only time Are they friendly? Not usually, but you have to speak with them, talk with them, get to know them. We don't just usually have one case together, we have several, and you have to kind of tap into them and learn that at the end of the day, there are people too and they don't want to be fighting eight hours a day on the phone or in the courtroom, you know. So tap into it and learn a little bit about them in their profession and how they work well and work with them, you know. So I'll talk with my defense counsel and establish relationships with them, because neither of us are retiring anytime soon. Generally, I mean, sometimes they are, and that's really fun too, because they have such a wealth of knowledge and I use that to my benefit Like, hey, you've been doing this for 45 years. What can you teach me before you leave? Then they love me and we have a great relationship.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like a mentor-mentee relationship is what it turns into. Even though they're on the opposite side. I don't treat them as my enemy. Sometimes I may have to, and I do. But again, it's about when to pick and choose. And sometimes it's also like, hey, no, I have this side of me too. Pick your side, I can be your friend or I can be your enemy. And if I can be their friend and we can work out a resolution them knowing my capabilities and my record, then we can resolve it and it'll benefit my client so much more than if we fight tooth and nail for four years and litigate a case, for example. That's just a little example, do you?
Speaker 2:feel like attorneys need to have a healthy nervous system. Oh yeah, I think that stuff is so compromised when you're in court. I could just imagine how nervous you get. You become a wreck, you get angry. It's like a roller coaster of emotions, I'm sure. Definitely so how do you navigate your nervous?
Speaker 1:system. A roller coaster of emotions? I'm sure, definitely so. How do you navigate your nervous system? It takes time, I think In the beginning it's very nerve wracking and absolutely is. But the more you do it you kind of get used to it and you're always going to be nervous about certain situations. But you always have to have your eye on the ball and see the end this is going to finish and take it task by task. So have your eye on the ball and see the end. This is going to finish. And take it task by task. So have your eye on the ball. What's the final outcome you want? But take it step by step, task by task. Don't think about the trial when you have discovery due, focus on the discovery first, and then you'll have tomorrow, the next day, to think about a game plan for the trial. So, step by step.
Speaker 1:You know, don't overwhelm yourself with everything. How do you handle failure? I use it to my advantage. So when I fail, it's great because it's like, okay, this is what happened here. How do we learn from this and not let that happen again? Why did this happen? How are we going to prevent this from happening in the future? And you know it happens and we fail many times before we succeed.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. I used to watch Suits all the time. I love that show and I learned so much from that show. But I always think about personalities of attorneys, like do you think that a soft-spoken person can be, or do you feel like it's a certain personality type I think you have?
Speaker 1:to be able to put yourself on the line, as in Like, if you're too soft-spoken, I don't think you're going to get far as an attorney. Really. Yeah, I think that you have to be able to come out of your shell, definitely because you're going to be pushed around, in my opinion, if you're soft-spoken all of the time.
Speaker 2:Who pushes you in those cases? Defense attorneys and clients, man, really Sometimes these clients push my buttons.
Speaker 1:Wow, what do they do? I mean, I have some clients that they nag. You know they'll push our call constantly for updates, some of them and then eventually, when they get used to us, it stops. It's generally in the beginning of a case, when they've just met me, that there'll be a little naggy call constantly. Then, once they get to know us and see, oh, they're pushing my case just how I want it or how I expect it, tapering their expectations, then it smooths out. But some, you know, defense attorneys and clients can both.
Speaker 2:How do you? I mean, you have to go to law school, obviously, to be a defense attorney, but how do you get that position?
Speaker 1:As a defense counsel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, defense counsel.
Speaker 1:Or even a defense attorney. No, you're right in the terminology, you just apply for that position on the opposite side. So you're asking, like the difference between what I do, which is personal injury plaintiff's work. I?
Speaker 2:mean you're a defense attorney for your client, but there's also the courts.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see what you're asking the district attorney.
Speaker 2:I think I'm trying to say Maybe.
Speaker 1:I don't know. So there's plaintiff's attorneys, which I am because I represent victims. Yeah, and they're considered plaintiffs, so victims of accidents, and then the defense counsel is on the other side Other side they represent the insurance companies. Oh yeah, so they represent the insurance companies and it's really just applying for that position.
Speaker 2:So what are district attorneys?
Speaker 1:District attorneys represent the state. Oh, that's a tough job to have. It is a tough job to have.
Speaker 2:Would you ever want to work as a district attorney?
Speaker 1:No, no, we're dealing with crimes and, you know, prosecuting.
Speaker 2:Do you like criminal law?
Speaker 1:In law school I loved it.
Speaker 2:I see you doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fun stuff sometimes and sometimes it's terrible stuff too. When I was clerking for the judge I worked for we had a murder trial and lots of rape cases and it can weigh heavily on you if you're not able to separate the work from when you go home. And I can see doing it long term would not something that.
Speaker 2:I want to do, is it?
Speaker 1:dangerous. I think so, in my opinion, for your well-being as an attorney?
Speaker 2:I think so, 100%, especially if you're dealing with mafia, mafia stuff. Absolutely. What do you think about? I'm going to ask you this it's probably a cliche question Did you watch the Johnny De depp?
Speaker 1:amber heard okay, a little bit. It's funny because my husband was yeah, so when he was watching it. But okay, like, let's watch it together. Um, man, she did so bad, poor amber. On the witness stand oh, johnny depp's attorney.
Speaker 2:What was her name? Name, I forgot, but she was. Camillo, Camilla, I think so. Wow, she nailed it. She was so, but it was so natural for her and that the reason why I asked you the questions of the skills is because I look at her. I'm like how bad of a logical thinker do you have to be to be able to be on top of a borderline personality disorder individual like Amber Heard?
Speaker 1:She was so good.
Speaker 2:She was good because she was following her, or else you would have just fell into her trap. But I mean, do you feel like logical thinking is important also, as a skit?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you do have to be 10 steps ahead always, eileen my son is like that, that's so good.
Speaker 2:We keep pushing, my husband and I, we keep pushing, and we're like Noah. He's so intelligent but also so witty and he'll just. He's so detailed, like he'll just see things or writings, or whatever in life in general, I'm like you'll make a great attorney, but he wants to be a race car driver, so Of course he's 10, 11?, 11. Yeah, yeah. So no attorney, but I always look for, I'm fascinated by, by your work, thank you. I think it takes a really just, uh, I think it takes a really calm person to show up in a courtroom and defend a person, whether in the right or in the wrong. But also I always, always, always look at an attorney's nervous system and I'm like, wow, this attorney has to be mentally healthy.
Speaker 1:Absolutely you do, because there's so much that can drag you down in the field. It has so many challenges that you have to be very strong to persevere.
Speaker 2:Yeah that grit basically so grit's important in life. You think so as an educator as well. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And you know I don't know. You tell me, do you think you could teach grit? Why are you asking me? Isn't that hard?
Speaker 2:I've thought of this because I have a baby now, so I'm like I want her to have grit. How okay. I think that life teaches you grit. So, going back to the beginning, remember how we were talking about our traditional household and like what your parents did right with you, that you're so educated and well-rounded, and you said, um, you know I failed, I wasn't a good student. There are certain things here and there, I think that grit is taught by loss and failure. I think that grit is taught by bullying, bullied kids. I think everything that anything that entails pain teaches grit.
Speaker 2:I did watch a TED talk of the person who was talking. I forgot her name, but she was presenting grit and how schools need to teach grit. But I don't think that schools can teach. I think life teaches that. I think failure teaches that Because, again going back to this, you can tell a child how important education is and how important you know God is, or what have you all you want, but until something clicks that kid's never going to do as you say, and they probably will, but maybe out of fear or just to shut you up, but I think life teaches you grit.
Speaker 1:Wow, I feel like you nailed that answer, because I've also seen this video that keeps popping up on my Instagram feed. That says if you do everything for your kids, you're not letting them fail, and so you're building a child with low self-esteem and low confidence. You don't love your kid if you're doing that, so you got to let them do things. Fail at it, failure, learn themselves, and even like infants, or you know, like don't constantly pick up the bottle and give it to them. Let them learn to pick it up 100%.
Speaker 2:So wow, yeah, yeah Again. And I say this with all my heart because I love kids and I love parents and I always want the best for every parent, every child. But there's two types of kids. There's a kid that's going to learn from someone else's mistake and there's also that kid that's going to have to fall and hit their head on the rock. Oh yeah To learn from that mistake. Yeah, I mean there's always that. So grit is taught by failure. The universe teaches grit, not you.
Speaker 1:I was that person, by the way, growing up. It wasn't until I experienced it. I hit a few rocks Same girl, was it one for you?
Speaker 2:I hit like 10 rocks.
Speaker 1:No, definitely not one Boulders. There have been boulders in my life, you know what zut is.
Speaker 2:How do you say zut? So wasn't that that oil in Armenia? Zut? So it was rocks of it, Like it was so hard. It's like this oily thing they use for construction, right? Yeah, so in Armenia.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry everyone's going to be like what's going on?
Speaker 2:I'll show you, so I'll tell you, so I'm going to tell you where I hit my head. Literally, it's Zut. Okay. In Armenia, where, where I lived, they had like these black rocks, but it was used for construction purposes, okay, and it was hard, harder than a rock, and it had like hard shells like around the edges.
Speaker 1:I hit my head on like five zoots mentally oh my god, I'm like waiting for the story like I was riding my bike.
Speaker 2:Storyteller, I'm a great storyteller.
Speaker 1:I love it, I know girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that taught me grit. By the way, it's the zut that taught me grit.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I swear to you, no matter how many times my dad said, read a book, go to school. It's like until I hit my head on that rock I never knew how important that you know life is and education is and all that stuff. So my perseverance came from that, definitely.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 2:That is so funny Life teaches you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, life teaches you With the zoots and the boulders. Zoots and the boulders.
Speaker 2:This was so awesome. It really was, and thank you so much for today. Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1:I hope you'll come back on again. I would love to, and then we can talk about PI cases. Yeah, which is fun. I have so many tons of questions about that. Oh my God, car accidents, slip and falls. There are lots of fun to talk about and I'd be happy to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before we go, what's one thing that you've accepted about yourself that you couldn't years ago?
Speaker 1:One thing you know I've accepted that the boulders I've hit in my life have created the strong, independent woman that I am today. Instead of being embarrassed of the troubles and letting them hold me back, I've accepted that that's part of my journey and has brought me to where I am today, and I'm proud of the woman that I am today. If it wasn't for those experiences, I wouldn't be who I am today. So it's a loaded question with a little bit of a loaded answer, but generally that's what it is that the things that would sometimes I would feel ashamed of have made me who I am today. So to accept them as part of my journey.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you, I love being on here. I know I love having you Such a natural, by the way, great storyteller, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's good to have guests that just love to talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell a story. Yeah, it makes it so much easier.
Speaker 2:I'm talking her no, you're not talking. I talked over you. Did I talk?
Speaker 1:no, I think no, no, no it's just like you know, you have a lot to say, I have a lot to say, and we're like, but no, not at all yeah, because you know the, the people that sit down and say, do I talk a lot, do I have a lot?
Speaker 2:sometimes I feel like I don't make sense are the people that have never been heard before. Yeah, they've got a lot to say. They have never been heard before. Yeah, they've got a lot to say, but they've never been heard before. I like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, thank you, thank you, thank you so much.