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The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Welcome to "The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast," the podcast where insightful conversations unfold, and the depth of the human mind is explored. In each episode, I sit down with a diverse range of individuals—thinkers, innovators, and captivating personalities—who share their unique insights and experiences. Together, we embark on a journey of discovery, unraveling the complexities of the human psyche and uncovering the untold truths that influence our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.
The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Brad Dacus | Parental Rights, Education Alternatives | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #42
Join us for a compelling conversation with Brad Dacus, founder of the Pacific Justice Institute, as we tackle the complexities of parental rights in the face of government intervention. Discover why the system might be incentivizing Child Protective Services to take children away from their homes and what this means for families across the nation. With Brad's extensive experience as a pro bono attorney, we explore practical strategies to protect families and uphold civil liberties, shedding light on how to navigate these often murky waters.
In a world where education is increasingly contentious, we examine the influence of teachers' unions and so-called leftist agendas within public schools. Learn about the rise of homeschooling, private schooling, and church-led co-ops as alternatives for parents seeking more control over their children's education. This episode offers actionable advice for parents eager to make a positive impact, from using opt-out forms to spearheading Bible clubs and evangelism outreach in public schools, ensuring a balanced and informed approach to modern educational challenges.
Finally, we delve into the legal and ethical dilemmas faced by teachers and clinicians in states with strict gender identity policies. Brad Dacus sheds light on how educators can navigate these challenges while maintaining their beliefs and safeguarding parental rights. We also address the legal landscape surrounding homeschooling, offering a guide for parents to protect their children online and avoid unnecessary CPS intervention. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone grappling with the intersection of education, government involvement, and personal freedoms.
You can lose your children and let me tell you why. Social workers, their little local agency, their little fiefdom, if you will, their county agency, they get more than $8,000 per head that they take by the federal government. No strings attached by the federal government, by the way. Federal government doesn't say, oh, you have to give certain due process protections, you have to make sure that there's a jury of their peers before you permanently take a child. Oh, no, federal government just says, basically, you tell me how many kids you've taken. Here's $8,000 per head and, by the way, we'll give you $8,000 for every year. You keep those children from the families.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, thank you for joining me. Today's episode was with pro bono attorney Brad Dacus, and he is the attorney and CEO and founder of Pacific Justice Institute. I wanted to have Brad on because it was really important for me to talk about the laws and regulations of public schools, homeschools and, in general, about our education system. Brad is somebody who has helped and stood by so many teachers. He's helped so many parents that have had their children taken away from their homes and this episode was kind of I wouldn't say kind of, but it genuinely was an eye-opener, because it really got me into thinking about how easy it is from Child Protective Services to take away children from their homes, and the incentives behind it blew my mind away that social workers get an incentive. I mean, we talk about that. We do talk about the public systems. We do talk about the rights of therapists. We do talk about you know, if we choose to not want to use pronouns all of that was just amazing and I loved having him on because he has such knowledge of the law.
Speaker 2:Brad is definitely someone that is such a high regard to the community of all. Americans definitely need to know about him, be aware about him and his work. He is such a support system. He's a phenomenal attorney and I'm very honored that he accepted my invitation and was on. We do talk a lot about public school laws and homeschooling laws and what grounds is there to take your child away from home and how to protect yourself, how to protect your family, and I think you guys are going to really find this episode intriguing and an eye-opener. So thank you for watching and supporting Brad. Thank you so much for joining me today. I have to say that it's such an honor to be in your presence. I admire your work, I admire you as a human being and I'm very grateful that you accepted my invitation and are with me today.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Let's start with this important question. I want to know what brought the thought to the Pacific Justice Institute. How was that, this beautiful institute, born?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great question, you know it. Actually, it all started when I graduated from law school and John W Whitehead, the founder of the Rutherford Institute, asked me to open an office for him in California, on the West Coast, and coordinate litigation in 14 Western states. You know, I said yes after praying and realizing I had to trust in the Lord and not myself. And God blessed it and I developed a huge team of attorneys, network of attorneys in little towns all throughout the Western United States. Then, after five years, the organization contracted, closed down its regional office, including mine, but offered to have me head up the public affairs office, to promote me to be the face of the organization for all media, all radio, television, everything. Also, I testified before Congress, have a higher salary, it all looks so perfect. And I said yes, of course, so I didn't have to pray about this.
Speaker 1:And then I had insomnia. I couldn't sleep, still couldn't sleep. Next night, still couldn't sleep. I went oh shoot, I got to pray about it.
Speaker 1:And when I did, the question that God brought to my mind right away was what desires has God put on my heart? And the desires put on my heart was not to just really be in the media or testify for Congress, but to make sure that people got the help that they needed where it was needed the most here on the West Coast at the time. So I said, okay, god, I'll do it on several conditions. I need a free office space, donated in Sacramento, free computer system, keep me on the radio stations for free we have to be in the black in just three months and I'm never going to charge anyone. And God came through on all of them, and some of them in miraculous ways, and the Pacific Justice Institute was born.
Speaker 1:It was back in 1997. And Pacific Justice Institute was born back in 1997. Now fast forward. We have not just one office that was donated, we have a donated office space for 36 offices we have now coast to coast in 26 states, and most of it has free utilities as well. And it's just really encouraging to see how God has lifted it up and all the work that we're able to do and accomplish all without charge. We now have 245 cases in active litigation coast to coast, and it's just such a joy to see how God has really blessed it and how many people thousands of people that we help every year without charge.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. I love that. It's God's work to do work like this. It's like I feel like sometimes we are placed into certain situations, that it's our calling. Do you feel like this was your calling? This is what you were born to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, originally it was interesting I was going to be a pastor, go to seminary. Really, yeah, I was going to be a pastor, go to seminary. And really, yeah, I was going to be a pastor seminary. And after getting my degree in finance, I was. But, um, I was working a couple years and prayed about it and the more I sought the lord on, the stronger my desire was to go to law school. Didn't exactly make sense because I want to do god's work, but it was strong desire to go to law school so. So I thought, well, this must be a calling. It doesn't always make sense, so I went ahead and went to law school.
Speaker 1:But the irony is is that I'd actually do more preaching in different churches than I ever would have had I probably gone to seminary. So, like this upcoming Sunday, I'm going to be preaching at a church in West Sacramento and so they have these things scheduled. So I'd say, over a long majority of my Sundays I'm guest preaching at churches, preaching from the word, applying the word expository verse by verse to what we're facing today and the challenges of the day. And of course, I always love to share the gospel message of hope in Christ as well, at the end of every service. So it's really I get the best of both I get to preach at the same time on Monday through Friday, and I get to be involved in making sure that everyone's getting help across the country when it comes to religious freedom, parental rights against the government and the sanctity of human life All three areas that are very dear to my heart.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I love that. One question that I want to ask you is can you share a recent case that highlights the core mission of Pacific Justice Institute?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are so many, so let me give you. I'll just give you one that comes to my mind. He's down in Southern California. There's a church I think it's Foothills Christian Church and it's. It's a wonderful church. Well, they have a district of private school. They also have a preschool and, like all preschools, it's licensed with the state. It has to be under California law.
Speaker 1:Well, the state of California has basically shut them down and they've had brought in a SWAT team. It was like a SWAT type kind of team with bulletproof vests and guns. And the reason they did is, initially, someone blew the whistle that a few of the kids were not wearing masks because their policy was to do what parents wanted, not what the state necessarily wanted or people wanted. And that was a very smart thing to do, because we now know that those little ones you know three, four year olds wearing masks it's actually not good for them to be wearing those masks for their people, psychologically, development wise as well as health wise, but nonetheless, that's what sort of triggered the whole thing. And then they came in there. You know guns, a blazing, if you will, not shooting, but stalking, you know just invading the place without, we would argue, without the proper warrant, without they went through private files, them no longer to sing religious songs. They could not sing. Compel any little preschooler to sing a religious song or, for that matter, to hear Bible stories? Well, this is a Christian private preschool at a church, really. So that's what the state, the government of the state of California, governor Gavin Newsom he was behind this move and this legislation supporting it. So we at Pacific Justice we've taken it on and we're defending them. And then we've taken it on and now we have it up on appeal. That's just a classic example of religious freedom, also mixed with parental rights, against a very totalitarian government that we have in California and also, for that matter, presently at the federal level with this administration.
Speaker 1:There's so much that's taken place that we at Pacific Justice have taken on. One was when they shut down the churches in California and other blue states, red states quickly opened up. They said we're going to open up restaurants, we're going to open up churches Makes total sense. Well, not if you live in a state like California. They open up restaurants and pot shops and liquor stores Well, but they kept those churches shut down and those synagogues shut down. We at Pacific Justice Institute, we went in and filed a lawsuit in federal court. We took it rapid fire all the way to the Supreme Court and Supreme Court, after just three days, shut down. We at Pacific Justice Institute, we went in and filed a lawsuit in federal court. We took it rapid fire all the way to the Supreme Court and Supreme Court, after just three days of deliberation, granted an emergency injunction ruling six to three ordering the governor of California to open those churches and synagogues immediately.
Speaker 1:And now we've also been defending people in the workplace being persecuted because of their faith, where they didn't want to take a controversial vac shot, where they didn't want to take a controversial vac shot, where they don't want to compromise their faith and say pronouns affirming something that's not true, something that to them is blasphemous against the creator. So we're taking these on and representing them. And then, of course, public schools, with teachers lying and hiding things from parents. We have lawsuits. We filed against that in New Jersey and other places.
Speaker 1:And it's just, you know, pro-life counselors being criminally prosecuted by the Biden administration, facing up to 10 years behind bars. A pastor with three kids and a wife peacefully praying there on the grounds of an abortion clinic Didn't touch anyone, didn't block, you know, up to 10 years behind bars. Really, that's like second degree homicide, second degree murder. You know it's a third degree homicide murder. So this is insane. Well, this is the Biden administration. The Department of Justice has been targeting pro-lifers peaceful, wonderful people doing great work, while ignoring the violence of mobsters and criminals who have come across the border. It's just been insane. So we at Pacific Justice, needless to say, have been very, very busy over the last several years in particular.
Speaker 2:I'm sure God has been removed from many people's homes. It has been removed from schools and other wonderful areas that children need to be in. As a man of faith and a prestige attorney, what do you think we as Americans did wrong to be in this situation?
Speaker 1:Well, I think part of it was complacency acquiescence. Well, I think part of it was complacency acquiescence Maybe we're too busy earning a living and the American dream, if you will, that we started allowing things to chip away from FDR forward, that started chipping away from religious freedom, really chipping away from respecting the Constitution based on its strict construction, its original intent, what it says, what it meant to say. So that has been a lot of what we're talking about. And then the good news, of course, the great news is what happened in 2016. A miraculous election outcome in the eyes of most political consultants and experts resulted in a major revolution in our federal courts, starting with the Supreme Court. You know we now have three appointments to the Supreme Court by former President Donald Trump we think that there'll be possibly one to three more in his term in the next four years and this resulted in landmark legislation, from reversing Roe versus Wade to respecting religious freedom in multiple different facets and ways. Parents' rights were going to make even more progress in parents' rights moving forward with our existing legislation and religious freedom moving forward. So we're very positive on the looking forward, but looking backward, without question, yeah, we allowed things to really go downhill, and a lot of it is in education, the public schools, without school choice, without parents having any say.
Speaker 1:The teachers union, driven by people from the far left, have been brainwashing our children very, very effectively. More than one in four children in public high schools today identify as being gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, binary or queer something in that spectrum. That's catastrophic in so many ways, and that's because of the breakdown taking place there. Also, the breakdown of the family unit has also opened the door for a lot of confusion and a lot of mistrust for marriage. And then the latest transgender movement has just been so catastrophic and has taken so many victims and has caused me to term public schools today as a general rule with some exceptions, as a general rule they become spiritual death camps for our children, as well as physical problems as well. So that's where we are, but moving forward. We at Pacific Justice are very optimistic?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. Since we're on that topic, how do you view the role of parents in shaping educational content in public schools?
Speaker 1:Well, first off, the first role I believe they should have is to pull their children from public schools as soon as possible, if they can do it. I'm not saying thus saith the Lord. God has commanded all parents to do this. I'm not going to say that I don't know every family situation. I don't know every single public school or public school teacher, but that's the first step, whether it's homeschooling, private schooling or working with churches, as we've done to start church homeschool co-ops, we're helping churches across the country do this. They're easy to do, they're simpler than private schools, very affordable and helps just about any family who wants to homeschool per se, not to have to feel like they're doing it alone. So that's number one.
Speaker 1:Number two my wife and I wrote a book called Reclaim your School. It's available free download on our website. It talks all about how parents can have a positive impact on public schools by not only just volunteering to be teacher's aides, but also empowering their children, monitoring what's going on in the schools and also working with their church on how they can effectively have outreach in public schools. There's so many things they can do. They can also utilize what we have, a valuable tool called opt-out forms that we've customized for, I think, almost all the 50 states across the country and go and download it for free on our website. It's also in that book Reclaim your School. They can download it for free.
Speaker 1:They website. It's also in that book Reclaim your School. They can download it for free. They can fill it out, check the boxes, send it to the school district and to the school principal and their teachers, putting them all on notice. I don't want my child exposed to this or this and I want to be notified about that. It's not a foolproof. It's not a foolproof in California. States like California, legislation by the Democrats was passed that have gutted free on download right now on our website for free pjiorg pjiorg. They can also sign up to get our free e-newsletter on the Legal Insider. It keeps people updated on what's happening in our many cases all across the country at pjiorg.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I'm going to link all of that for anyone wondering. By the way, I know people are going to message me about that. I preach to the choir. I think that pulling children out of school and homeschooling them and private schools are an essential definitely, but what do you think? Is that going to help the situation with all these propagandas, or is that going to make it worse?
Speaker 1:That's a great question because many people say you know, if we take all our kids out, you know we're just surrendering the public schools. Well, and that's the biggest, one of the biggest arguments. Well, I say this we need to save as many children as we can from what I call the spiritual death camps A child today, what public schools have become have become too much for a child to be expected to survive spiritually. The way schools are today, especially in states like California, or even in school districts like the Dallas Independent School District, houston School District, atlanta, I mean even large city school districts in red states. So that's even large city school districts in red States. So that's so I, you know I, I think we should pull out, but at the same time we can't forget. Even if we pull out our children, we can't forget the children in public schools. So all it takes is just a few kids in a public school, for example, to start a Bible club. Just a few kids with that Bible club have an outreach, evangelism, outreach Week, working with ministries such as DecisionPointorg. It's a wonderful ministry. My wife and I actually helped get it started from the beginning. They have full revival rallies in the school gyms. My wife and I did the very first one in Sacramento and we talk about it in our book. We wrote Reclaim your School. But it's now a separate ministry and it's all over the country decisionpointorg. So there's so many things that can practically be done to reach out to the kids that are still there, while at the same time with churches and others working to provide viable alternatives for kids.
Speaker 1:You know, I tell pastors. I talked to one pastor. He says yeah, you know, our church is getting small and we're all getting old and you know, I don't know if any of us are going to be alive 10 years from now. I said, well, that doesn't have to be. He goes what do you mean? I says you want your church to grow, you want young people. I said sure.
Speaker 1:I said well, contact decisionpointorg. They partner with churches like yours and they help start youth programs, first doing the outreach week, the outreach to the Bible club that you help start, and then, with the kids who come to Christ, they steer them to the church that's there sponsoring them, and the people there in your church can teach Sunday school and can teach youth programs and they can even start a tutoring program. They can start a private school or, excuse me, a homeschool co-op, reaching out to people in the community and people in your church that have extra time on their hands can help tutor and monitor things. I mean, there's just so much possibilities out there, even for a church that seemingly is shrinking and dying out, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing I always think about is these consequences behind choosing to get your kids out of public school and homeschool them. The CPS is one of them. How involved can they get? Because I'm a new homeschooling mom and I haven't heard anything yet. But these are definitely laws that I want to get into because my audience majority of them are homeschooling families, new homeschooling families. So question how involved can CPS get? If you're homeschooling your child, is that considered something where they can get involved with or they have no rights to that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question. So, cps, you know we had a case where they went after a homeschooling family in California, alleging that you can't homeschool unless you're a credentialed teacher. So they raided the house, took the kids. We stepped in, we represented them In fact I did this myself personally and kids were giving back to the mother and you know we could have sued. At that time the mother decided she didn't want to file a lawsuit against the school district it was up in Nevada City, california. But then later on we had another big homeschooling case and we very similar facts. We prevailed and the US and the state Supreme Court of California allowed it to hold us as case law.
Speaker 1:But the reality is, generally speaking, social workers have attacked homeschoolers. Children are more vulnerable of a social worker taking them if they're in a public school than if they're homeschooled. It wasn't always that way, but now social workers are so aggressive in taking children that may have gender confusion and the family is not willing, the parents aren't willing to encourage it and embrace it, or your same sex acts with other kids. If the parents aren't willing to do that, then that's grounds to have your child permanently taken from you in states like california, new york, illinois, oregon, washington, the northeast it's common, it's happening all the time so so that's why it's actually better for parents to homeschool, because they're not monitored by a progressive or leftist teacher looking for hostile parents after encouraging a child to be gender confused or to delve into gender or sexual confusion. So, that said, homeschoolers are still vulnerable, needless to say, and so what they need to do is they need to basically be prepared.
Speaker 1:Now we have an article, free article, on our website. It's called 12 Steps to Protect your Children from CPS. I'm not exaggerating. Every family in America with children under the age of 18 should have that article. It's not long. It's step by step what they need to do to protect their children from being taken. Once their children are taken and they call me, it's too late. Usually they've got to go through the system. They're presumed generally guilty until proven innocent. They have a government-appointed public defender and everything is stacked against them the children they don't have, their children they can't bring in their own expert. Oh no, the government says no, only our experts, but the parents. Before the children are taken, when they get that first call from a social worker, they first knock on their door. They know what to say they know what to do, they can keep their children. Usually more than 98, 99% of the time they will keep their children. They will not be taken. That is how important this article is 12 Steps to Protect your Children from CPS or Child Protective Services. They call it different things in different states, but it's social workers and they can get download that for free from our website. P, j, I, dot o r g.
Speaker 1:Children and parents are losing children and come from nice suburban neighborhoods, safe neighborhoods. People say, oh, we're not going to lose our children. That's for those, those deadbeat folks who are on drugs and alcohol in the inner city and where the dad's behind bars and the mom's a prostitute. No, no, this is a threat. It doesn't matter who you are, no matter how nice of a neighborhood you live in. You can lose your children. And let me tell you why. Social workers, their little local agency, their little fiefdom, if you will, their county agency. They get more than $8,000 per head that they take by the federal government no strings attached by the federal government, by the way. Federal government doesn't say, oh, you have to give certain due process protections, you have to make sure that there's a jury of their peers before you permanently take a child. Oh no, federal government just says basically you tell me how many kids you've taken. Here's $8,000 per head and, by the way, we'll give you $8,000 for every year. You keep those children from the families.
Speaker 2:So this is an incentive, just like vaccine incentives that go to doctors. This is an incentive that goes to social workers from removing children from homes. This is an incentive that goes to social workers from removing children from homes.
Speaker 1:Is that what I'm saying? It's a big incentive, a money-based incentive, and that's why I'm hoping that this new Congress, a new White House and Senate will address this issue and say in the future frankly, I think they should say you know what? We're not funding government taking kids anymore. States, you fund it and you prioritize accordingly. That's what needs to happen, and if they don't, alternative number two is they need to say you know what?
Speaker 1:From now on, states, in order to get money per child that you take, you must meet these due process requirements. You have to prove not just a preponderance of the evidence, you must show by clear and convincing evidence In a court of law. You must give the parents a jury of their peers, if the parents request it. You must have due process. You must give them a speedy trial. You must give them their rights, just like you do criminals. You give them their Miranda rights. You need to read to parents their rights and make them aware of their rights to not have to just sign documents waiving their rights and waiving authority over their children. There's so much that needs to be done on that level. So if governors are going to keep giving money out. They need to at least ensure that some basic due process actions are taken. Right now, the best state in the country to raise your child safely is Oklahoma, believe it or not.
Speaker 1:They have actually yeah, they're actually the most progressive in addressing these issues of abuse by social workers and making sure that there's really adequate due process. Protection of families not losing their children wrongfully.
Speaker 2:What I want to understand is on what grounds do they take children away from parents? You're saying, you don't have to be a prostitute or a drug addict or a criminal, they can just come in and just take your kids. I mean, on what grounds, though?
Speaker 1:It's actually very easy. So here's what the protocol is. Say a teacher talks to a child and a child says you know, miss Jones, I really say it's a girl, jill. And she says I really feel like I'm a boy, can you call me, jimmy the teacher? Many public school teachers not most would say oh, yes, I affirm you as a boy. Yes, you're now Jimmy. And then she'll call the social workers and the social workers will talk to the girl and say do your parents, will they approve of this? Oh no, they won't. I know they won't. They might even spank me or they will be real upset. Oh, they will. They're not going to affirm you, they're not going to encourage it. Okay, we'll take you, we'll make sure you're put in protective care.
Speaker 1:They take the child, say an 11-year-old girl. I mean, this is not hypothetical, this is real, this is real stuff. Yeah, they take the child, they put the child in a foster home. Often we'd see a gay family, a transgender couple, and the parents don't see their child again. And that's not unusual.
Speaker 1:If your child has gender confusion, the odds are you will lose your child and many parents don't even find out they have any kind of gender confusion until after the child is taken. A lot of this quote gender confusion. It's encouraged, it's initiated, the thoughts of it by the public schools that you know. Hollywood is not helping either. Disney and other networks they're encouraging it, they're creating it, but it's very, very dangerous.
Speaker 1:Public schools have become very, very dangerous to children, whether you know the a child, by the way, who is solidified in their confusion thanks to government schools and the indoctrination that they have. Generally speaking, that combined, of course, with you know, sexual child abuse and things like that can also be contributory, lack of you know, proper gender bonding, et cetera. But if this is encouraged and solidified, particularly by a public school, then that child's suicide risk increases, not 200%, no, by 1,200%, 12 times the risk of committing suicide. If they're confirmed and encouraged in this area, now, the public schools, the teachers union, they say, well, that's because society is not affirming them and encouraging them. No, no, no. Studies show that a child is just as likely to commit suicide if they're in a very progressive community like San Francisco than if they're in a conservative community like a small town in East Texas. It's an internal issue, it is a mentally. It causes suicide because it does not resolve the confusion that a child's facing.
Speaker 2:Brad, can you give us a little bit of details of what teachers face that are not gender affirming in schools? What are the consequences? I mean, I know that you've helped a few teachers not a few, a lot of hundreds to you know, be correct here. You were on Tucker Carlson with I forgot her name, jessica, was it One of your? You know you guys were talking about how she was fired and she was fired because she was standing up for what was right. So what are some of the consequences that teachers face? I know you talked about this on Tucker's show.
Speaker 1:Well, the consequences that they face, particularly in leftist Democrat controlled areas and school districts and school boards boards is nothing less than losing their jobs. They're being ordered. For example, in California a public school teacher has to basically, you know, confirm and encourage a child's gender confusion. If the child expresses that they have such confusion or aren't sure of things, and they get away with it they're protected by state law. Even a conservative school board run by parents is now by state law is prohibited from punishing any teacher who secretly grooms a child into gender confusion, into gender confusion. Right now in New Jersey, on the other side of the country, the attorney general there pronounced that all teachers have to not only use pronouns that violate their conscience and every good teacher should violate their conscience to encourage any confusion in any child, much less confusion that results increases their likelihood of suicide by 1200%. So that's number one. But it also the attorney general says all public school teachers also have to lie to parents, to conceal, to cover it up. If a child has gender confusion, and then the child what commits suicide and they tell them, say afterwards oh yeah, by the way, forgot to tell you or I couldn't tell you, the child had gender confusion the parent could have gotten. Counseling, could have got the child the real support to address the underlying cause, whether it was sexual child abuse by a stranger or who knows what.
Speaker 1:This is the reality of what teachers, the minority of teachers, the good teachers, the ones that have a conscience, that really truly care about children this is what they're facing and that's why we at Pacific Justice Institute have made a pledge to defend every single teacher that wants to respect the rights of parents and appreciates and truly cares for children. We'll defend them without charge in these situations, all across the country, coast to coast. You know we have an office in Miami, atlanta, delaware, boston, philadelphia, chicago, dallas, many places all across the country, and we're ready to stand by our work, very uniquely, to make sure that everyone gets help. That's sort of our hallmark, by the way. We don't just cherry pick like other organizations. They just cherry pick a few high profile cases. We work hard to make sure that everyone gets help, that no one's left on the side of the road without charge. That's what we do at Pacific Justice Institute.
Speaker 2:And what does this process look like for the teachers? I wonder, is this a long process, like going to court and dealing with all these laws? I mean, is this a draining process for teachers? I just want to know, because there's a lot of teachers that are struggling. I know a few that are refusing to go back. They're just tutoring right now because of this issue. Particularly our tutor. She's phenomenal, but she's reluctant to go back because she is protecting the truth. She's like if I go back, I'm going to be affirming all these confusions and I don't want to be placed in that situation.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, we give direct counsel to teachers in this situation and how they can work around it. They need to, you know, first off, assuming they have a hostile school district, a hostile principal. You know first off. You know they can contact the parents off. You know they can contact the parents. They can, you know, assuming that they're not bound by state law, like California, from doing so. Potentially they can let the parents know, find out where the parents are at.
Speaker 1:Most parents would not say that's a good thing. Most parents say this is terrible. We don't want to encourage our child to be confused. That's so harmful medically, psychologically, you know, risk of suicide.
Speaker 1:So, but even if they have hostile parents, here's the different ways around is first, the parent. If it's a school, she can say well, look, you are registered, based on your birth certificate, as this gender. I'm going to refer to you as that gender and that name. If she's told she can't, if the parents say no and the school district says no, you have to use refer the other name. Then the other alternative is a teacher can use the last name of all the children in the class. She says you know, I'm going to do something different, you know, instead of just using your first name, I'm going to use your last name.
Speaker 1:Last names are unique and they're something that you should be proud of and they have different history about you. It says a lot about you and I'm going to use your last name and break things up. So that's what I'm going to do. So the teacher uses the last name, avoids any pronouns and then, if that's not good enough, then we at the Pacific Justice Institute think the parent has a very strong position for us to file a lawsuit on their behalf and represent them. We think we would prevail in these cases as a general rule across the country. But it first takes teachers knowing their rights. They should go to our website, learn about their rights and, at the same time, contact us if they're in that situation as soon as possible.
Speaker 2:Brad, what are some of the consequences of not using pronouns? If we don't want to use pronouns, are there consequences? Can we talk about those a little bit? Sure Are? There things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it depends on the policy of the state you're in and the school board. So California, a teacher could lose their job potentially, especially if they have a school district that doesn't want to work with them and school district is obstinate and says you have to use pronouns.
Speaker 2:So it's their license to teach if they're not utilizing a student.
Speaker 1:Depending on the state they live in. That's very true. That's the position of the teachers union and, by the way, teachers don't have to pay a penny to the teachers union. They have a right under both federal law, under Title seven, but even under case law, supreme Court, case law. They have a right to not pay any dues to the union at all, and nor should they if they have a conscience.
Speaker 1:As far as I'm concerned, in not wanting to support the evil and the wickedness that the teachers union, the NEA, supports with regard to the evil that they bring into the public schools, it just floors me how I can see a teacher, you know, professing to be a committed Christian, attending church, you know, whatever At the same time giving money to fund the evil destruction of children with radical curriculum.
Speaker 1:That goes totally against the conscience of anyone who, as I call a true believer. That's why I encourage teachers to really, you know, pray about and examine their heart and conscience before they become a part of a union. But anyway, that's something that we're looking at in the way of consequences. You know, they can lose their jobs, and it's very real, and it all depends on the state they live in, the school board, whether it's one controlled by the teachers union, which more than 85% are in the United States. And even then, do they have a principal that's willing to work with them and help them, accommodate their convictions and their faith by letting them use, say, the last name of the children in the class? They don't want to do just the last name of the one child, that's, you know, put. You know, don't do all the children in their class last names, or, and, or just avoid using pronouns at all and only say their name, just avoid using pronouns at all and only say their name?
Speaker 2:Do you work with any clinicians, therapists particularly? Do you have cases with therapists that are in similar situations, like teachers about to lose their licensure for not using pronouns or anything like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually I had a case out of Texas a number of years ago and I personally flew in and took on the case myself because I'm licensed not only in California but also in Texas and we didn't have an office in Texas at the time. Now we have two attorneys there in Texas on staff, but I went ahead and defended this psychologist who was being sued. In fact, he was having his license challenged before the tegas texas board of licensors, for you know uh, I forget the exact name, but that's what they do, and it was. They was being attacked by someone out of state that saw his website, the fact that he gave counseling to people who were struggling with gender confusion, um and uh and the like, and we and they're in the.
Speaker 1:The state of texas was on the brink of taking his license from him this is no, because, uh, he was engaging in, uh, counseling, uh, it's either for someone who was gender confused or someone or who wanted people who wanted counseling regarding same sex attraction. And they said, oh, this is terrible. And I went right into court, I mean, and I went right before that commission. There's nothing, no grounds. You have to remove his license for providing counseling that is requested and sought after by an adult client. This is their right. He has every right to do so in accordance to the faith and convictions of his client. And if you do decide to take his license, then we at Pacific Justice Institute are going to challenge this in federal court and are going to take this all the way to the United States Supreme Court if necessary, where I'm very confident we will win. I says, you know, I says you cannot allow ideology to trounce upon the constitutional rights of counselors to provide the counseling and therapy requested and needed, assessed by their client, by their counselor in the state of Texas.
Speaker 1:Now there's some intolerant, bigoted states like California and New York that have banned counseling for people who have same-sex attraction and want to understand the underlying reason or even gender identity issues. It's actually banned. California, governor of California would just as soon have people commit suicide, apparently, than allow them to actually address the underlying issues, because there's nothing genetic about it. This is a result of past things, whether it's sexual child abuse, that's right. Lack of gender gender peer bonding with your you know, with your like gender could be a lack of a father affirming you know, or life difficulties yes, so many are.
Speaker 1:Insecurities by you know just a number of things, our insecurities by you know just a number of things. And yet these are all things that can be addressed and have successfully been addressed with a qualified counselor in helping the person understanding that you know, like a classic example, a girl that was, say, sexually abused. They can often develop a very high negative stigma to the male anatomy, want nothing to do with the male anatomy or people who are male and therefore they seek females who are safe, if you will, in their minds because they've not had the counseling to address the fears and the trauma.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:You know, that's just one example. The fears and the trauma, that's right. You know, that's just. You know one example. Or a male that's been, say, sexually abused by, uh, by whoever, um, or the, or the female, for that matter. They all they can say look, I want, this is so traumatic, I want to become a different person. So they think, by changing their gender, their name, how they look, um, and everything, that they can become a different person to escape this, this horror, this, this past. It doesn't work. We know they, they're not happy and it's tragic. And yet we have states, blue states, that prevent people from even having the freedom to get counseling, even though we know statistically what the results are to these individuals as a general rule. So, yeah, yeah, so they need to encourage their state legislators to do the right thing. Hopefully we're going to have some positive legislation on a federal level protecting counselors moving forward.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I'll go even deeper than that. You know, a lot of clinicians are even scared to help their clients with coming to this conclusion or, you know, being very truthful about what's really happened and having them see a bigger picture. There's a lot of fear behind that and I have a lot of colleagues who have pronouns even in their bios because they're just so afraid. And so it's this fear. As an attorney, what advice do you give therapists that do want to practice truth but they're very afraid of having their license revoked and taken away, kind of like what's happening with Jordan Peterson?
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, and he's written some great books, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yes, he has. I've read one of them.
Speaker 1:And a great guy. So here's what you do. Let's say you're in a hostile state. Let's say you're in California, new York, one of these places, but they say you can't give corrective therapy, or whatever you want to call it, to help someone be able to address and no longer, at least, be bound by these feelings of either gender confusion or same-sex attraction. And how do you deal with that?
Speaker 1:Well, what we advise counselors to do is, first off, to have their client, in writing, state sign a statement saying that they understand that the counseling they're receiving is not for the intended purpose of modifying their gender identity or their sexual orientation and that this will not be the direct focus of this counseling. So they signed that statement. Legally, we can do that. Yeah, you can have them say you want them acknowledging First it helps protect the counselor, the psychologist, to have the client sign something like this, where the client is, in writing, understanding they are not getting counseling for the counseling for the purpose, for the only you know, as you know, how do we change your gender, how do we change your sexual orientation? Put that in there. See, that is not the purpose of this counseling and that is not the center focus of this counseling.
Speaker 1:Then, after that's done, the counselor does what a counselor would do anyway, which is find out what is the underlying reason why they have gender confusion, why they have same-sex attraction, what was the issue? What's involved in their past? What has not been reconciled? Was it sexual child abuse, lack of peer bonding, the absence of a father? Or a father that was conditional in spending time with his girl only if she did boy things with him? Or the mother who only wanted the child to do to do girl things or dress the child like a girl, which you know some sick yeah, we see all the time yeah, yeah, it's often mothers who have a you know, a mother partner.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we see that happening. It's just carries on and it's just very sad. But through the counseling though, if they focus on that, that's really what the core issue is these underlying issues, and then what happens with regards to the same-sex attraction or the gender identity. The same-sex attraction or the gender identity that often plays itself out once the real underlying issues are addressed. But that's the approach that I would recommend for a counselor not to go into saying, okay, we're going to give you the five steps of how you can change your gender identity, or here's the five steps on how to change your sexual orientation. No, no, no, no. How to change your sexual orientation? No, no, no, no. But a good counselor anyway would, would should focus on how did those feelings come? Where did those? Where did it come? That identity come from, and we're going to help you address that. We're going to help deal with those, those Not be afraid of laws and consequences.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's and that's the best way of it. Some psychologists and counselors have left intolerant, bigoted states like California yeah, that's what's happened. But those that are still in California, that still have a heart wanting to help people who want help or seeking help yeah, it's very helpful. Yeah, it's very helpful. I don't know of any psychologist or counselor that tries to indoctrinate or change someone's orientation or gender identity, that is not seeking to have that done. It's counterproductive, it can be frustrating. It can you know? So I just don't see that happening. And yet that's the you know the scare stories that are attempted by the left to stigmatize responsible psychologists and counselors who are actually doing the right thing helping people who want help, who need help and are ready to get that help.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Brad. Going back to I'm kind of going to steer away from this topic and go back to homeschooling. I think one important question I forgot to ask is what do you? I mean, what are some laws that parents need to be very mindful of if they're choosing to homeschool their kids, or when they're homeschooling their kids, what's like essentials that they need to know?
Speaker 1:essentials that they need to know. Yes, great question, and we talk about a number of this is also in our material online, pjiorg. But I, just right off hand, I can tell you number one they need to be familiar with their state laws. States have different requirements and mandates. So in California, if they're going to go it alone, they need to file their own private school affidavit.
Speaker 1:Yes, they write, yeah, their own private school affidavit, sa, right, yeah, their own private school affidavit, yeah, and with the state exactly. They need to have some kind of a curriculum program of some kind. Yes, they need to keep an attendance of a child and they need to have some methodology showing grades so that they're testing their child in some way. So you can do this. Now some schools real trending schools have different methodologies. That's fine. But uh, homeschoolers, they need to. That in california that's what they need to do.
Speaker 1:Those are just general, good, general principles, uh, but to have, you know, an actual program, you know social worker finds out that the children can't read and write and parents just say, well, they'll learn on their own.
Speaker 1:Somehow they're probably going to be written up for truancy and maybe lose their children. Before they ever take their child out of a public school, they need to have something either the child enrolled in a private school, an actual private school, or file their own private school affidavit. They need to have that done in advance. They can't just pull their kids out and say, yeah, we're going to get this done. Next month no social worker could be called and they could lose their kid, their child, their children. So that's real important. Also, they need to know that they're going to be under more scrutiny potentially, at least initially. I encourage parents, if there's any kind of fear of social workers going after them, that they uh, that they stop corporal punishment spanking of a child. If they do spank a child, it needs to be not with a belt but with a paddle with a curved edge.
Speaker 2:But it is legal to keep your child in california right. As long as there's no bruises or marks you, you can take them Right and so that's why the belts sometimes can make a little red mark.
Speaker 1:You know, that's just what happens.
Speaker 2:That's what we got growing up the belt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did too, and I haven't killed or shot anyone. I'm actually a really peaceful guy. Neither, neither Not the therapist, our founding fathers, by the way, all of them were spanked with a switch or a belt and, you know, they turned out very well, in fact, much better than the kids do today. So that generation. So I would say that those are some things that parents need to take into consideration of their homeschooling Understand they may be under more scrutiny. And also, if their children, generally speaking, if they reach the age of um, eight, nine or ten, especially ten, I mean um, they need to be looking at alternative, uh forms of discipline anyway, that are actually probably more effective. Uh, just what I've read now.
Speaker 1:I remember a friend of mine in college. You know he was raised in the state of texas and he was. He got a whip him when he was 16 for talking back to his mother and his dad didn't approve of that. And you know he was raised in the state of Texas and he was. He got a whip him when he was 16 for talking back to his mother and his dad didn't approve of that, and you know. So he turned out just fine. But we'd have to be sensitive to the stereotypes of the day and yeah, and so uh consequence grows with age.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and, yeah, exactly, and, and you know there's great books like uh, like how to have a Good Kid by Friday. If you have a strong-willed child where nothing seems to work, I highly recommend that book by Dr Lemon, how to have a Good Kid by Friday. It's an excellent book.
Speaker 2:It is excellent. I've read that book a few times. There's a lot of great books, but know. But yeah, I agree with you the consequence definitely needs to grow with age Spanking. A 16 year old is a little much there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially in today's society. But bottom line, if people want to homeschool, those are just some things that they should do. But I highly recommend them, though, not to go it alone. If they, they can be a part of a church where other parents are homeschooling and it also. If they're not a part of a church and they're home, it's also for their safety.
Speaker 1:I think parents are more likely to have their child taken if they're going in alone rogue and don't have any kind of community support. When they're part of a church, though, it sends a signal to social workers. You know any kind of community support. When they're part of a church, though, it sends a signal to social workers, especially when the pastor's wife come to the house. When the social worker's there Say we're just here to support, they're part of our church. It tells the social worker you take this child wrongfully, you're going to have an entire church community know about it. That's right. There's going to be ramifications. So I've encouraged you.
Speaker 1:I've gotten many families parents who don't go to church to be a part of a church, just as part of a defensive measure to keep from losing their children from from social workers. It really makes a lot of sense, even if they're atheists. It's just. It's just a smart thing to do. And who knows? Stats show that that faith actually results in children making wiser decisions. Faith actually results in children making wiser decisions less likely to get pregnant, less likely to drop out of school, do drugs, et cetera. Not a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Not at all. Have you ever heard of a homeschooling program called Abeka?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, I've heard great things about it.
Speaker 2:It's one of many out there that are just doing excellent, excellent work. That's right. Yeah, we are enrolled with Abeka and their Christian Bible study is just phenomenal. That's like the first class that 8 in the morning my son logs into in their prayer. It's just so beautiful and it teaches just wonderful values and morals, and so everyone's out there.
Speaker 1:One thing I do want to warn parents, especially their homeschooling, and that is this A lot of them are now being victimized by the Internet.
Speaker 1:Parents may put you know filtering on their Internet. They need to have filtering, obviously, but it doesn't filter ideas. So I encourage parents, if they allow a child on the Internet, not to have it in their bedroom, only in the kitchen, not on with earplugs. It needs to be so that parents can hear exactly what they're listening to at all times. That's right. And also I encourage parents not to let their children have cell phones. Instead, give them flip-up phones where they can make phone calls, they can text, but not cell phones, because that allows them at school to have access to all kinds of things that can just really confuse and really hurt children. The studies show this, and so parents need to really be proactive like never before. Homeschooling is not a safety measure like it used to be. Parents need to be very proactive and I encourage them to go through all the measures they can to protect their children when it comes to the internet access via a laptop or a cell phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I agree, I agree, fred, thank you so much for today. It was such an awesome conversation. I loved that we covered homeschooling and public schools and counselors. I love your ideas. I love the fact that you know law so well and you're such a helpful individual for people out there, and your amount of faith, which makes it a hundred times better.
Speaker 1:So thank you, thank you, and I appreciate your podcast and the privilege to participate. Thank you again.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.