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The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Welcome to "The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast," the podcast where insightful conversations unfold, and the depth of the human mind is explored. In each episode, I sit down with a diverse range of individuals—thinkers, innovators, and captivating personalities—who share their unique insights and experiences. Together, we embark on a journey of discovery, unraveling the complexities of the human psyche and uncovering the untold truths that influence our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.
The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast
Dr. Shivani Gupta | Ayurveda, Autoimmune Healing, Gut Health | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #43
Join us for an enlightening episode as Dr. Shivani, a renowned expert in autoimmune and inflammation, reveals the secrets of Ayurveda and its profound impact on health. Discover the ancient wisdom of this 5,000-year-old healing practice, which harmonizes the body, mind, and spirit with nature. Dr. Shivani shares her personal journey into Ayurveda, detailing how her family’s natural remedies in India inspired her path. Prepare to uncover the medicinal powers of turmeric, curcumin, and cinnamon, and how these potent spices have treated ailments like inflammation and sleep disorders for centuries.
If you've ever wondered about the connection between gut health and autoimmune conditions, this episode is for you. Our discussion ventures into understanding how Ayurveda can restore gut health and immune function, especially after the overuse of antibiotics. I share my personal story of rejecting Western medicine and finding healing through Ayurveda during my time in India. Dr. Shivani highlights the importance of holistic approaches and lifestyle changes in managing conditions like thyroid disorders, emphasizing the need for a balance between Western and Eastern medicine.
In our final segments, we dive into the practical aspects of Ayurvedic self-care rituals that align with natural circadian rhythms. Learn about the significance of morning routines, from using a copper tongue scraper for detoxification to incorporating herbs like ginger and turmeric into your daily diet. We also explore the science behind turmeric and curcumin's powerful benefits as anti-inflammatory agents, supported by personal anecdotes and scientific interest. Whether you're interested in adopting Ayurvedic practices or curious about functional medicine, this episode offers valuable insights into achieving holistic wellness.
But by doing this you're really going to clean everything out. So some people will take their morning shower while they're oil pulling. They'll go for their morning walk outside. But make sure when you spit out that oil you spit it out in the trash, not your sink, toilet or shower, why It'll clog the pipes. So it's one of those things. We use a lot of oil in Ayurveda. So you have to be nice to your house and not clog up everything.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone. Today's amazing episode was with Dr Shivani. Now, Dr Shivani is an autoimmune and inflammation expert who specializes in Ayurveda medicine, which is a traditional Indian way of healing. It has been around for thousands of years. We talk about anything related to Ayurveda medicine and healing our body, including our body, microbiomes, our gut, health, autoimmune diseases, thyroid, particularly colds, flus.
Speaker 2:We did get into the six pillars of Ayurveda medicine and she breaks down all of them, but what I take away from this entire podcast is the spices and how they're related to medicine. Everything that we have had in traditional medicine. It's in our cabinets, our kitchen cabinets from turmeric, curcumin, cinnamon to all these spices, and the way she breaks it down and explains what each spice does and how healing it is is phenomenal to me, Backed up by research and thousands of years of individuals using these spices and healing themselves, whether it's ulcers, whether it's inflammations, whether it's a leaky gut, whether it's sleeping dilemmas. I promise you you're going to love this episode with Dr Shivani. She's also done her PhD dissertation on turmeric, has studied it for over 10 years and what she has to bring is phenomenal. Enjoy with Dr Shivani. All right, Dr Shivani, it's so nice to connect.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's an absolute honor. I adore your work. I am obsessed with your Instagram page of how helpful it is. So much beautiful information, by the way, and it's so insightful, and I'm just so grateful that there's people like you spreading awareness so that people can learn on how to treat themselves.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I really appreciate that. It's a labor of love to teach online, but it's so worth it because everyone who finds me needed to find this wisdom from Ayurveda, so it's really exciting.
Speaker 2:So talk to me a little bit about what is it called Ayurveda? How do you pronounce that?
Speaker 1:A lot of people pronounce it are you veda? Because that's easier, uh-huh I. I call it ayurveda a y u r. But ayurveda is this ancient system of wisdom and health and healing and medicine from india that's over 5 000 years old and within that wisdom we taught about a lifestyle that you can live every single day that keeps your whole body, mind and spirit in alignment. That's the point of Ayurveda is to show us how to live a preventive lifestyle and how to live in rhythm with nature so we can have vibrant health.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful. How did you get into that lifestyle? Or learning about Ayurveda?
Speaker 1:Sure, well, growing up, I would go to India every year to see my grandparents and my cousins, and I would see that people would practice yoga. I would see that my grandma would use all sorts of spices to heal us whenever we were sick. And when I came back to the United States it was oh, you're sick, go to the pediatrician, get your antibiotics. And then you're clear. And I always thought who's right? Like, why are both systems being used? What's the better one? And so by the time I got to college, I had so many health issues I had really destroyed my gut taking really strong antibiotics.
Speaker 1:Through high school I was chronically sick and couldn't figure out why. And in college I finally said enough is enough, I have to find a different way. And we were in India and I looked at this doctor and I said you know what? I'm not taking your antibiotics and your crazy stuff. I can't do all this medication anymore. And I went on a journey and a quest through India and I studied Ayurveda and I really just wanted to know does this work? And I was patient number one. I tried it on myself and I healed my gut. I built an immune system that worked again and I realized, wow, this system really works. Why are we not all learning about it? Why are we not all applying it to our lives? And I realized that Ayurveda just kind of sucks at marketing. It sucks at sharing the wisdom in a way that people will use, and so that's been my mission for the last 20 years is to keep distilling that wisdom and knowledge in ways that we will actually use it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so beautiful and I love how. I mean, is it safe to call Ayurveda traditional?
Speaker 1:medicine you can. It's ancient traditional medicine. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Now I wanna ask you this question. I know that a lot of physicians and clinicians they tend to be very dismissive of this question but do you feel like antibiotics really do damage on the body versus heal the body? What's your perspective as a professional? Great, question.
Speaker 1:So I think antibiotics have their time and place. I think they're phenomenal for what they do. When we have a problem and we need to kill off something that's bacterial in the body, antibiotics will do that job. The problem is, until recently, in pediatrics. A lot of times even my own kid's pediatrician was trying to do this with me. She's like here's prophylactic antibiotics, it'll just cut the time of your cold down. And I kept saying you can test the kid and if it's not bacterial, we will not start a course of antibiotics. I do not want to obliterate their gut microbiome. We're not doing that. And she'd say yeah, but you can just get better faster. And I'd say if it isn't bacterial, how are we getting better faster? That logic has been found to be completely illogical now, and so, thank goodness, doctors are recognizing much more that we need to just be really careful with our use of antibiotics. We can't just jump to it because we just want to get better faster. That's not logical.
Speaker 1:The gut microbiome, the gut, is there, with 80% of our immune system residing in the gut, and thus the better answer is what are we going to do to support gut health and the immune system to fight off whatever we're dealing with, and unfortunately, that time period of my life where I was just sick all the time through my childhood led to such heavy antibiotic use. It took me until decades later to realize it was leaky gut. I had a leaky gut. I was basically an autoimmune patient. Right, exactly, I'm basically. I was an autoimmune patient for all those years kept saying, guys, I have no immune system, I have no immune system, can you help me? And no one had any terminology or language back there for that. So now I'm really grateful we have so many tools in the toolkit around autoimmunity and then gut health, leaky gut, inflammation. We've. We have a lot more options.
Speaker 2:You know I love, I love this. Oh my gosh. I want to talk to you about this because I want you to open up the doors for anybody to learn about this Now. Here in in America, when somebody says, when a physician says there's an autoimmune issue and there's a leaky gut issue, immediately we, we tend to go to um medications and um, you know, the most famous one of all it's your sugar glucose. It's a glucose issue and it's really hard to follow that type of diet. How do you think that Ayurveda can help this kind of healing to heal your autoimmune traditionally, versus cutting glucose and taking all these medications, particularly thyroid? It's just skyrocketed among women as the leading autoimmune disease right now. So what are your perspectives on that?
Speaker 1:Sure. So you know, I have a sister-in-law who was suffering with a thyroid condition and she was new to the country, and so I took her to the endocrinologist and when we went, the endocrinologist said look, you are definitely on your way there. I will be prescribing you chronic, long-term thyroid medication for the rest of your life. You're not quite there yet, you're not quite at Hashimoto's level, so just wait and you'll get there and then call me and I said is there anything she can do in the meantime to reverse out of this Diet, give up gluten, anything she's like no diet will have no impact, there's nothing she can do. And I just looked at the doctor in shock and was like, okay, there's obviously many different types of practitioners out there. I think it's so important right now that practitioners go and look into the world of functional medicine, where there's so much data, validated science you know clinical trials on a completely different approach to that question and there's so much data, validated science you know clinical trials on a completely different approach to that question and there's so much published science if you just look on what is inflaming us and how inflammation is the root cause that's causing so many of the issues that we're struggling with, especially as women, and we know that clinical trials weren't even done on women up until very recently when it comes to Western medicine. So it's so important to take a look at the situation and say, ok, thank you, doctor, for the solutions you're giving.
Speaker 1:I love Western medicine, I go to Western medicine and I think, as I age, I'll be reaching into their toolkits more than I thought I would. That's been my year. Right now, unfortunately, I'm like wow, I needed your tools more than ever, so I can't rail against them. But I do think that it's so important that we as women are empowered, that we as women are really our own sovereign advocates for our own health. And the minute we're getting an answer, that's like oh, that's your entire toolkit. You're offering me drug A and drug B and telling me, as an autoimmune patient, to just deal with it. Okay, now I'm going to take this other road and say thank you for the diagnosis, what are my options?
Speaker 1:And so Ayurveda teaches us that everything starts in the gut. Gut health is the center of all health, and that gut microbiome, gut, brain access, as we call it now. We now know your gut health is your brain health, your gut health is your mood, your gut health is your skin, your gut health is everything, and so gut health is the immune system. So if we're not going to honor and revere gut health practices daily, we're always going to fall behind.
Speaker 1:Then we talk about inflammation and how the body can be chronically inflamed if we're always under a toxic burden based on our lifestyle. So it might be the foods we eat, might be poor sleep, might be poor detoxification methods, might be exposure to toxins and environmental toxins, which is a pretty big deal. So any of those things that we do create this residue called ama, things that we do create this residue called ama. And if we're not going to stop every quarter, at the intersection of seasons, or at least once a year, and do a big detox, we're not going to clean and clear that out of our system. And then the body is always going to be battling with itself, and that battle with itself is autoimmunity. That's the body battling with itself, not realizing that the enemy is not the body. The enemy is all the things that we've done. So the body isn't recognizing how to stay healthy and balanced. So in Ayurveda we reach into a couple toolkits. We reach into circadian rhythm, living in alignment with your circadian rhythm to nature. We teach about.
Speaker 2:Oh, so it's not only sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, circadian rhythm is not only sleep.
Speaker 2:That's right. So I wanted to bring that up because I mean, especially for my audience we're really into like science, but what's explained in the circadian rhythm is your sleep habits. But there's deeper meaning to that as well that you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yes. So when it comes to circadian rhythm, I read the teachers that we are meant to be in alignment with nature's clock. Ayurveda teaches that we are meant to be in alignment with nature's clock, and if we're in alignment with nature's clock, that's where we are flowing downhill with the river of life, as opposed to battling uphill and constantly fighting to feel well. And so, yes, sleep is a big part of it. From 10 to 2 on the circadian clock, ayurveda teaches that it's pitta time of day or fire time of day, and so that time at night 10 to 2, is when the fires come out. In the daytime it's high noon, high sun, but in the evening that energy comes through and clears out all that doesn't serve. So I think of it as these little garbage trucks that come out. They clear up all the gunk in my mind and my brain that I accumulated, that did not serve.
Speaker 2:Well, interesting.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute, this is interesting that we did not serve.
Speaker 1:Then the throat maybe lots of things in the throat chakra that we said or didn't say that we need to clear In the heart, any emotions, in our gut, all the things we possibly consumed that were pesticide ridden or chemical ridden, that we didn't think about, and then it clears it out in the morning. But if we don't sleep 10 to 2, if we sleep after midnight, for example, we won't clear inflammation, we will not rejuvenate, we will not heal the gut. All the benefits that we want for our health are bypassed completely, and we know in modern science that we can collect up to three pounds of glymphatic waste in our brain throughout the year. So imagine walking around with three pounds of garbage inside your head all day because you chose not to sleep before midnight forever, which a lot of people do, and even people in my household do that, and I'm like that's wrong. The closer you sleep to 10, the closer you are to letting the body clear and clean all that out of you so that you're less inflamed and healthier the next day.
Speaker 2:So the circadian rhythm is not only sleep, but it's the energy cleansing of your body, and this happens from 10 pm to 2 am in the morning.
Speaker 1:Correct. And then you should sleep the rest of your morning. And then when you wake up we say rise with the sun, move first thing in the morning, get your best work done in the morning. We teach that 10 to 2 during the day is the best time to eat your lunch, so high noon is the best time to eat a lunch that's so nutrient dense, so you get all the best benefits out of it.
Speaker 1:We say 2 to 6 is a different time of day, more vata time of day. So get your tasks done, but you're not going to be able to focus as well, but your small to-do list tasks, get them out of the way. And then six to 10, as the sun sets. You are meant to set with that sun. So winding down your activities, not winding up Dinner by seven, wrap up work and activities by eight, wrap up your house and responsibilities by nine. And nine to 10 should be self-care rituals and sleep hygiene rituals to ensure very high quality sleep and being asleep by 10. So there's a whole clock around circadian rhythm, 24 hours of the day.
Speaker 2:That's. That is a beautiful, beautiful ritual, but here's my thing. What's interesting is that the cleansing time is 10 to 2 pm, but majority of people in the United States of America wake up around 2 and 3 am in the morning, and those are usually the people that are very anxious and are struggling with depression. Yeah, have you noticed that in your practice, the two to 3am wake up time?
Speaker 1:Sure, I've seen it a lot. And that's where I talk to my clients and say how much are you moving and exercising? Is the body physically tired enough to get a full night's sleep? Oftentimes we don't have enough sleep pressure. And then, secondly, what time are you eating and what are you drinking before bed? If it's wine, alcohol and sugar and we're pushing up sugar before bed, that's a problem. If we're eating too late and still digesting it, that's a problem. But it's really a systemic issue. That's why IRV that teaches about all six pillars of health what we're eating, when we're eating, our mind-body constitution, gut health, circadian rhythm and then super spices and self-care. So all the pieces come together to give us what we want, which is great health.
Speaker 2:Can you take us back to those six pillars of health in Ayurveda? So what's the first one?
Speaker 1:I know we talked about sleep First we talked about circadian rhythm, which includes sleep.
Speaker 2:Beautiful. So that's the first one. What's the second?
Speaker 1:one Second one I would say is gut health. So having true gut health practices throughout the day really matters. We talk about having ginger lemon tea in the morning to ignite the digestive fire. We talk about using Consume, yeah or room temperature water even before that to hydrate the cells, create peristalsis. So we have that first, really great bowel movement of the day. Oftentimes in the West people are constipated and in Ayurveda we never want that. We want the body clearing every morning out and us to have a rhythm around what needs to go.
Speaker 2:So the lemon and ginger is going to stimulate the gut. So the second pillar is gut health.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and we have a lot of other practices spices. We recommend using a tongue scraper in the morning to gently stimulate peristalsis as well. That cleans all the toxins of the body. It also supports oral microbiome, which we know supports gut microbiome, and so in Ayurveda we recommend that copper tongue scraper.
Speaker 2:Copper tongue scraper before you consume lemon and ginger, correct, yeah? And I heard that that's really good for the lymphos too. Is that correct? Yeah, I read that somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because what we teach is that all the organs of the body are reflected on the tongue, just like they're reflected on the bottom of the feet, and so, because of that, you're gently massaging all the organs of your body and detoxing them. So I've had people whose constipation is cleared up, we know, from a deep dive. Yeah, I know I was shocked too. Sometimes I make recommendations and I'm like wow, it does all that for you. I have people who lose 15 pounds and I'm always like will you say it back to me? Whatever I said to you that was so effective.
Speaker 2:What was that? What does the tongue have that the scraper does? Can you, can you tell us that? What is? How is it beneficial?
Speaker 1:So basically, all the organs of the tongue, all the organs of your body are reflected on the tongue. So scraping it is going to gently massage and gently detox all those organs. That's one. Secondly, it helps clear our taste buds so we taste our food better.
Speaker 1:Thirdly, when you have a white film on your tongue that indicates a toxin accumulation in the body. And if you stick your tongue out, most of us have a white film on the tongue, different discolorations and issues. And so using that copper tongue scraper as your way of gently detoxing it's pretty much free, because one tongue scraper will last you 10 years and then you don't have to do as big huge of detoxes later on. And then finally, for the gut, we teach that it ignites that digestive fire and we teach that that campfire, that gut agony, is a campfire and your job is to ignite it in the morning, get it started so it's ready to process all the foods you're going to eat, and then settle it down at night so that the body can focus on other things overnight and not be processing food.
Speaker 2:Do you recommend scraping the tongue for children and, if so, how old?
Speaker 1:I'd say five or six onwards, as soon as they know how not to hurt themselves. A metal tongue scraper, if you're not capable, can cut you, so you just have to know how to gently do that.
Speaker 2:Why do you recommend a copper tongue scraper versus metal?
Speaker 1:So in a lot of stores they sell only the steel tongue scraper. But if you go on Amazon and certain websites they'll sell you the copper version. Copper is already inherently antibacterial so it's pretty self-cleaning. It stays cleaner longer, and then copper also has mineralizing benefits. So in Ayurveda we used to teach to take a copper-lined cup and put water in it overnight, put it by your bedside and start your day with that water first thing in the morning, and it's not only hydrating to the system but it's mineralizing as well.
Speaker 2:Where have you been? This is amazing information. So wait, copper cups. It's healthier to drink water in and you can leave it, because I have copper cups and my son puts it next to his bedside and just consumes it when he's thirsty at night. So it's actually doing great.
Speaker 1:Yes, and copper, if you think about it again, is antibacterial. So they knew if we put it in copper it's not going to get gross, it's not going to get dirty or bad. And then nowadays we know that we really need more minerals. Now, if you are high copper beware, I do the test for copper in my blood and I'm great and in range, but it's one of those things where we're iron deficient. A lot of us were mineral deficient, so this is just another great way to bring that in.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay. So we talked about the circadian rhythm, we talked about the gut health. What's the third pillar in Ayurveda?
Speaker 1:Third would be dosha, your mind, body, constitution. So we teach that when you take a dosha quiz you'll come to understand if you are more air, more fire or more earth. And knowing that constitution type really drives how you manage yourself, how you eat, how you manage your schedule, how you manage kind of everything. Because it leads to certain personality traits. So a vata person is more thin and wiry. This is someone who's more creative. They go really fast, they're fast paced, they're more air. They need more grounding tools.
Speaker 1:Bitta people are fire. So when we take a dosha quiz we're all fire. I'm a bitta. We're passionate, driven, ambitious. We have a tendency to get burnt out, explode and erupt and we tend to be hangry. And so Bitta people have to self-manage a lot with cooling tools and eating long time and things like that. And then Gaffa people are bigger, boned, stronger. They have round features, oilier hair, curly hair. They have a tendency to lift heavier, they're much stronger, they're caretakers, they're very loyal. And so the kapha nurturing body type needs support with eating easy to digest foods, not raw foods, and support with getting their energy moving for the day. So they have a tendency to be really sluggish and they want to move more. So we have to get Kafa moving in the day.
Speaker 2:I can just tell you right off the bat learning all these, I'm a beta. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so knowing that's really important. The angry and the hangry yeah, I get angry and hangry all the time unless I'm like actively. That's why I teach. Tea time is me time. I have to like hydrate every two hours. I have to eat on time or the world goes crashing down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is the. This is the quiz. What are their? What are their levels? Are there in the quiz that people rank.
Speaker 1:So I have this dosha quiz on my website, so it's at drshvanicom, and when you take the quiz you'll see it'll give you your primary dosha and then, if you want a more detailed quiz, I have the bigger detailed quiz.
Speaker 1:Then you can come to understand your primary and your secondary dosha and that really helps you understand. Okay, I'm really like that, but maybe my mind or emotions are more like this one, like I'm a pitta, but I have a kind of vata mind. I can be all over the place and super creative and I have to rein in my mind. And so then you understand how to use the circadian rhythm, gut health practices, food, diet practices and self-care practices to stay the most centered within your constitution. So most people who take that quiz are like how did you know that about me? That's insane. I'm like this is ancient Ayurvedic wisdom. It's said this for 5,000 years and it knows that we are made of nature and these are the elements that dominate us and what that repercussion is when it comes to our health, because each of those doshas has certain health tendencies as well.
Speaker 2:Wow, and I think it's incredible. Can people fluctuate between a few of them in the Doshik quiz, or is it just like a bit and that's it? There's people that have multiple yes.
Speaker 1:So you could be three Doshik. You could have a strong primary and a strong secondary. You're born with your Doshik template, but life happens and so I always ask like are there certain life traumas, big events that happen in your life that caused the shift that you're in now? And then, how are we going to shift you back into your original dosha, so you feel at home in your body, so everything feels good again? A lot of times when I meet women in their fifties and sixties, they're like I just don't feel like myself and I haven't felt like myself for a really long time. And when you look it's a kapha imbalance. And if you bring them back to their bitta selves all over, all of a sudden they're like the Ferrari that they once were and they're ready to go. So that's always the goal is bring you back to your dosha.
Speaker 2:Kapha balance. Does that in English translation mean equilibrium and balances in humans? Because, you know, sometimes we can also lose that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, like, for example, after kids, I became more guffa than I normally am. I gained weight. Everything was slower, my metabolism was slower. I was very. One thing at a time Made sense, though, as a mother, you're a caretaker. Your whole world is to be mother earth to those kids, and so I was that for a period of time, and then I was ready to go back to work, and I couldn't figure out how. How come I can't launch a company? Where's my energy, my brain, all the things I need to be on fire? Well, I had to balance back into my primary fire element, and then I got the energy and everything back the way I'm used to functioning, and so each of us has our own specific template, and Ayurveda is just trying to show us how to find ourselves again and be at home again, bring body, mind and spirit into alignment so we can feel our best.
Speaker 2:What are people supposed to be naturally born in?
Speaker 1:You're naturally born into your own dosha, into your own combination. You could be like how do we find that out, though? It's by taking a dosha quiz.
Speaker 2:So it's still by the quiz, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, by the quiz you'll know. And then oftentimes, sitting down in a consultation, the job of the practitioner is really to ascertain. Ayurvedic doctors If you have one in your city they use pulse diagnosis, they use tongue analysis. They're going to look at your tongue, they're going to look at your fingernails, your eyes, your hair. A lot of times, just through physical assessment we will know what someone is. But it's also so important to take a really big history, because what if I'm meeting you now and you were completely different 20 years ago? So we're trying to really ascertain what were you as a kid? What was your template? Coming in? And let me figure out how to balance you back to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that this quiz is and I want everybody to reach out to you. I mean, I have a huge family following and I love this because you're right, when you do become a parent whether that is a first time dad or a first time mom you tend to be knocked out of your kind of natural rhythm and it's hard to kind of get back and I have people just maybe going to therapy and sometimes there's this disconnection, you're like I'm not feeling better and sometimes you know it's like not an emotional thing, maybe it's a physical, physical symptom instead, and this is why these types of practices are essential.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We have to learn every tool that will affect us, and what I love is integrative medicine has so many. So when I was struggling, I was like, well, is it chiropractic That'll put me in alignment? Is it functional medicine? Do I need to heal my gut and get my body on track, which is part of the puzzle a lot of the time? Or in Ayurveda, it's just we bring you back to your dosha.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's the dosha. Yeah, so, um, so that's the so, that's the dosha. Is the fourth one, I believe. Right, what's the fifth?
Speaker 1:What's the fifth Then? The next one would be, I would say, self-care rituals from Ayurveda. Our Ayurvedic self-care rituals tie into circadian rhythm, because we teach a daily rhythm that you can build every day. That's detoxing, that's healing, that's supportive, and it starts first thing in the morning. So we talk about you know, touch the ground, touch your forehead and set an intention for the day. They say thank you and set an intention. So my intention is usually can I please have peace today?
Speaker 2:Beautiful, so just practice, gratefulness Simple.
Speaker 1:Exactly, very simple. And then we teach to have that copper lined cup of water. Make sure you're hydrating from first thing, because if you're not and you don't have that bowel movement, we've got some problems. Then we teach that after you brush your teeth, use the tongue scraper. We teach about oil pulling. So that's just taking about one to two tablespoons of any food grade organic oil. You put that in the mouth Like olive oil, things like that. Yeah, coconut oil, olive oil sesame oil.
Speaker 2:Why is that?
Speaker 1:essential. So basically, oil pulling means that oil in the mouth as you swish it around is going to collect all the bacteria and toxins that have accumulated in your mouth overnight, and when you spit it out into the trash can you're getting rid of all of that. And we know oral microbiome ties to heart health. We know it ties to gut health, and so oil pulling is kind of a weird one. I didn't do it for many years and finally I was like you can't teach it unless you do it. And I tried it and it's not that bad.
Speaker 1:And you can find oils online now that have some mint in them, because we're used to minty things being part of our oral hygiene. But by doing this you're really going to clean everything out. So some people will take their morning shower while they're oil pulling. They'll go for their morning walk outside, but make sure when you spit out that oil, you spit it out in the trash, not your sink, toilet or shower, why It'll clog the pipes. So it's one of those things we use a lot of oil in irv this. You have to be nice to your house and not clog up everything it's called oil pulling.
Speaker 2:So basically you're just rinsing your mouth with oil. How long does it have to be in the mouth?
Speaker 1:so you keep it in your mouth for about 5 to 20 minutes, and that sounds like a long time, but again, you can have it, stack it, you can do anything else. You're just keeping your mouth shut while you're moving the oil around. Do you practice that? I do, I do. I do it on the weekends usually because with kids we've got to get through the morning and get out the door. I can't be silent. I feel you, yeah, from the minute I wake up we're trying to get out that door. So on the weekends I can do it on Saturday and Sunday easily.
Speaker 2:Now Shivani. In Chinese medicine, most doctors believe that you need to drink water that's equivalent to the weather. Is this in Ayurveda as well, that cold water is not really permitted on the gut. It's very bad for you to drink ice water.
Speaker 1:Correct. We don't permit it at all. We don't like ice. We don't like ice water. We forbid anyone from drinking water any time around your meals. We don't want water within. We forbid anyone from drinking water anytime around your meals. We don't want water within 30 minutes of your meals, on either side. So if you're eating, it should be about eating and not ice water and iced tea and all these things going down the system that are going to shut off that campfire. We want that campfire 100% focused. All those enzymes, everything focused, all that acidity focused on the digestive process so we don't have toxins formed because we have undigested foods.
Speaker 2:Now is ice water um. Does it harm the microbiomes? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Why is it a hard no basically the body is warm, and so in Ayurveda we teach to sip warm water throughout the day, like I drink herbal teas all day long and then I drink a few green teas in there and that's all the water you consume Pretty much. I wish I was a better hydrator. I carry a water bottle around with electrolytes but if you told me I had to hydrate, my best bet for hydrating is herbal teas, cause I love that. I know it's beneficial. It feels so good to me. Um, ayurveda teaches that the more we sip warm water, the more we're going to support healthier tissue and detoxing. But if we're going to do it through ice water, you can do that, cause it's hot and you want to just cool down. But it's kind of like an assault to the body. It's not received well by the body.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes perfect sense. Now, the sixth one, which is my favorite one, was the herbs.
Speaker 1:Yes, so super spices, which is huge. I when I when I was sitting in herbology class I was doing my master's in Ayurvedic sciences and in herbology class they started talking about turmeric, ginger, cardamom, cilantro, uh, which we call coriander, right, coriander seeds are cilantro um, fennel, cumin, and I sat there and I was like wait a minute, you're telling me the spices I've eaten every day of my whole life are that beneficial? I thought they were just part of food and they were, were like no, the Indian cooking is Ayurvedic cooking and Ayurvedic cooking has all of these benefits. And I fell deeply in love with turmeric because I thought, with my family history of diabetes, heart disease, parkinson's stroke, everything horrible in my family you're telling me that turmeric could have helped us this whole time. So I embarked on a dissertation.
Speaker 1:My PhD dissertation was on turmeric. I studied it for years. Now there's over 17,000 scientific studies on curcumin in PubMed, which is really exciting. And so I teach about turmeric all the time because I think if we understood how powerful turmeric is, we wouldn't have health going the direction it's going right now.
Speaker 2:What do you? Why do you think turmeric is essential piece of uh? Is that an?
Speaker 1:herb? Yeah, it's an herb, it's a spice. It's actually a spice because turmeric is a sister plant to ginger, it's a rhizome, so it's not an herb or spice. And then when you take ginger as the plant and you dry it, we make it the spice. And then when you take that spice, turmeric, which has a lot of benefits, it's important to take it with black pepper or a healthy fat to increase the absorption. And then, out of that turmeric plant, only 3% is the curcuminoids. Of those three curcuminoids, curcumin is the most effective at reducing inflammation and so a lot of people are out there eating turmeric as a spice, thinking it's going to help with their joint pain. It's not, it's not enough, because only 3% of it is doing the heavy lifting. Then, when it comes to supplements, a lot of times people are buying supplements that say curcumalonga or they'll say turmeric curcuminoids, but if it's not curcumin standardized to 95%, we're not going to drive that significant reduction in inflammation that we want. And we know that turmeric is a very powerful anti-inflammatory antioxidant. It's immune modulating, so it's antiviral, antibacterial, antifungal. We know it's anti-obesity. We know that it really is a very powerful anti-aging tool.
Speaker 1:So, as we're aging and we have this oxidative stress that makes us feel like we're rusting from the inside. Curcumin goes in there. It's supportive of the gut microbiome. It helps extend our telomeres, which is the ends of our DNA strands, so it is anti-aging in that way. It also has a positive impact on sirtuins, ampk pathways.
Speaker 1:It kills off zombie cells in the body. So a lot of times we have these cells that form that just run into everything and cause damage like zombies, and curcumin just comes in there like a janitor and cleans house. It causes cell apoptosis, so cells that don't belong in the body. It causes cell death. So those things clear out of the way because oftentimes, as we're aging, the problem is that everything is just slowing down. But if we keep clearing out, everything's slowing down, then we can keep having the cell renewal that we need to have that energy and that vitality that we want. So now that I'm in my mid 40s, I'm looking at aging like, okay, how do I keep brain function online, gut function online, energy online, as I've always had it, and I know that turmeric and a lot of the super spices from Ayurveda will help us get there.
Speaker 2:Now, how are turmeric and curcumin related?
Speaker 1:So turmeric is the plant. When you take it in fresh form, like a lot of people juice it, that's fine. When you take it fresh and you dry it into a spice which we buy it at the grocery store, that turmeric spice is really beneficial. But take it with black pepper or a healthy fat. And then when you take that turmeric spice and extract from it the 3% that you can extract out of it that we know is the most beneficial is called curcuminoids, and out of the curcuminoids, curcumin is the most effective extract out of turmeric. And so my world for the last 10 years has been putting curcumin into people and seeing what it does for chronic joint pain, inflammation, gut issues, autoimmunity, all these kinds of things. I personally am obviously a big fan. I high dose on turmeric because it holds my immune system together, so I really rely on it, Do you?
Speaker 2:I mean, I mix first of all, I had no idea curcumin was so powerful and I use it in my spices, my soups, my dishes with a mustard seed and like, all the time, and I think that we do in in the Armenian kitchen too. We use all these spices, but it's important to know what these spices do. What I'm hearing you say is that curcumin replaces kind of like the NAD supplements that people take, because it kind of helps with aging. You're saying Correct, and that's what people are taking NAD for.
Speaker 1:It's just self-aging correct, and that's what people are taking nad for. It's just stop aging. I think we're all on this race towards what will help us as we age, because aging is quite a reckoning. This year has been quite a moment for me where I was like, wow, I have to reach into my ayurvedic toolkit time at a 3x to pull out what I need to hold my brain and energy function. But curcumin has a positive effect on mitochondrial health and cell death, so I think of it as the anti-aging tool, and then I'm going to reach into the other ones too. I'm going to try everything I can find. But curcumin is so well received by the body.
Speaker 1:Turmeric is a plant from mother nature. The body knows how to use it. I've been working with a I was going to say DNA professor, a genetics professor out of Clemson, and we were both having, we were creating a study around. Why is it that so many cells and so many pathways in the body receive turmeric so well? It's almost kind of nuts how that's true, and so I think that's why the scientific community is really clamoring to understand why is it that turmeric works so well and how else can we use it? Because they're already using it for joint pain. That's an obvious one. Pain and inflammation, gut issues but it just affects so many pathways that there's the science on it is exploding. It has so many benefits.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you a little story. My neighbor years ago, um, he was struggling with a stomach ulcer. Okay, and my mom's like, with her beautiful Armenian accent, she's like you need to drink turmeric with your tea, you know, and for a month, Shivani, this man would just drop a teaspoon of turmeric in his tea, would mix it and just would drink it with a little bit of sugar and he healed himself. Amazing, and I've seen so many people I have actually had a far, far relative that healed brain tumor from turmeric. I mean, it decreased substantially based on eating, consuming turmeric. If I were to just read something, I would be like, all right, it's just basic research, but to hear personal stories of turmeric, I'm just blown away. That you know, people are just starting to recognize how wonderful it is.
Speaker 1:And here we have our people that have been using it for thousands of years, all of our cultures right Iraq, iran, middle East East Asia, china. I mean, it's not like Chinese medicine didn't use turmeric, it did. They used ashwagandha, ginger, a lot of the adaptogens we use. These are all science's who have said for millennia nature's toolkit is incredible. Just reach into it and use it. You don't need these drugs that have side effects. These drugs have a time and place. They're that hammer when you need that hammer for the problem. But way before you use such a big, strong hammer on the body, why don't you reach for the nice, natural, simple tool that the body will receive so well? And I've seen stories like that. I've had people whose allergies went away. They used to sneeze 20 times at a time and that went away. Back pain, knee pain, hip pain. People who are losing hand function over time they keep their function. People who have brain fog, migraines it helps. So it's got very far reaching capabilities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. If there was three spices that you would pick in the world to consume, which ones would they be?
Speaker 1:Turmeric is my number one, always on earth. My number two is ashwagandha. Ashwagandha is a powerhouse adaptogen. It's for neurocognitive function. If you're anxious and stressed, it'll calm you down. If you're depressed and low, it'll lift you up. So I really think of ashwagandha as like my second favorite to turmeric. Um, and then I would say in my case in my case, because my gut has always been my life problem I would pick hing. So there's a spice called asafetida or hing. It's really pungent and stinky, but if you make a tea out of it, all gas, bloating, indigestion and pain will go away. So I've used that about a thousand times in my life, maybe more, and I still use it, sometimes on my kids or myself. So that would be my number three, but I have many more I love.
Speaker 2:What is the one thing that you discovered during your dissertation about turmeric that blew your mind away?
Speaker 1:Antiviral. Turmeric is antiviral. That sold me Anti-inflammatory. I got it. I was like, wow, we can prevent chronic inflammation. That's key to everything. Antioxidant you're talking about reversing oxidative stress in the body. It'll go after the things that cause oxidative stress. Wow, that'll be anti-aging. But I was studying it over a decade ago, so aging wasn't as top of mind. But antiviral is a big deal. I have little kids they bring home they have historically brought home the grossest colds and viruses and to be able to have a defensive shield against all the garbage out there even now I can travel for business, go to conferences, shake a hundred hands and come back and I'll take a hit. Like I'll feel it. My entire system's like, oh gosh, we're going to have to battle this and then the turmeric will just handle the problem. It's so strong as an immune support that I have a defensive shield and that, to me, is worth a million bucks.
Speaker 2:How do you think that the parents and the families that are watching this podcast will say well, it's not easy to consume turmeric, especially for kids. What is your advice as a Aveda specialist? How can we do this?
Speaker 1:So I take turmeric myself as an extract, as a supplement, and I built my own because I was really curious can we build one for the market that's so strong that doctors will use it every day? And so that's been my body of work for about 10 years is working with orthopedics and functional medicine. When it comes to my kids, I give them a capsule and I just open it in half into their Indian food. So I have to hide it in a food that will hide the flavor really well. A lot of times I just don't, yeah, so I just open it underneath the dish, mix the dish. I'm like there's your dinner and they're like this tastes different and I'm like too bad.
Speaker 2:And then I know that we are at least fighting off whatever it is that they're bringing home. How much of it do we consume for our immunes to be properly managed?
Speaker 1:and not compromised. The recommended dose of curcumin is a thousand milligrams a day. We know we can take up to eight grams a day safely. So you can take 500 milligrams in the morning, 500 milligrams in the evening and if someone has like a really big issue they can take a third capsule later in the day as well.
Speaker 2:Do you recommend capsule versus powder or fresh?
Speaker 1:In my case, based on all the studying I've done, I think a curcumin capsule is the best way to take it, because you know what you're getting, you're delivering a very exact result and you're pulling curcumin at the highest dosage, at the highest potency to drive a specific result. So I eat turmeric in my food every day. I consider that spices for general benefits, but not anywhere in the hemisphere of inflammation reduction that I need because as I age we have more weight gain. Metabolism slows down, everything slows down. Brain health slows down. Gut is always impacted by stress and toxins. So a high dose of curcumin is what's going to really do the job versus the spice is not going to get you there.
Speaker 2:Okay. Now when we go to like a grocery store like Whole Foods or Sprouts, they have it on the spices shelf. Does it matter if you get an organic turmeric or a non-organic, because I know it's separate. There's curcumin too. What do people buy? How does that work?
Speaker 1:I buy regular turmeric powder. When it comes to my fruit, my veggies, my eggs, the bigger things, milk, dairy, I try to be organic as much as possible. But when it comes to my spices, I don't think too hard about it. So I don't typically buy turmeric organic. I buy it in three pound bags at the indian store. And when it comes to my supplement, yeah, fresh spice turmeric, the dried spice turmeric, I don't buy fresh turmeric. Yeah, the fresh turmeric. I buy fresh ginger but I don't buy fresh turmeric. I don't have a use for it. And then, when it comes to supplementation, I take my supplements daily.
Speaker 2:Okay. Now, when you say you buy your spices, is it like pound that you buy in the Indians, because we have so many Indian grocery stores here in California. It's amazing. So, like, guide us there, so we go and we just, is it that you scoop it right? It's the powder and you scoop it into a bag.
Speaker 1:No, when we go to the Indian store there's a whole aisle of spices and they'll sell you the spice in the whole form, in the ground form. They'll sell it in small bags or big bags. In my house we're cooking Indian food every day, so we buy cumin in a big bag, coriander, red chili powder, turmeric all these things in three-pound bags, ready to go, and then we keep them in the fridge and we keep refilling our. We call it a masal dhani, the spice mix holder, right in the kitchen. Yes, I've seen that, the beautiful gold. Yes, it's round and it has round little tins in there. Yeah, and that's what we cook from every day.
Speaker 1:And so when someone has a problem, I'm always like can I just give you some, you know, hing, some spice with some purple salt we call it hing with kala namak mixed together into a tea, and it'll soothe the gut right down. A lot of people post COVID have had weird gut issues, so I've given them that tea and everything settled. So I just reach into IRV, this toolkit for teas, and it completely works. And I even designed some teas around sleep, menopause and unwinding, because to me the adaptogens from Ayurveda are really powerful, so taking them daily can be a really beautiful way to give yourself the herbs, but then also have like, have what I talked about, which is tea. Time is me time, taking a moment to yourself, tune into yourself. Ask yourself some beautiful questions Like how am I feeling? What do I need to do today to feel better? Am I going to eat on time and take care of myself today and then shifting your day accordingly so that you're living by your best rhythm?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's beautiful, shivani. Do you recommend for individuals to buy the spices at grocery stores, like the glass ones, or do you recommend it from other places? What's like the best brands or anything? Any advice?
Speaker 1:I think grocery stores are great. I think when it comes to spices you get what you pay for. So certain spices I'm going to buy at three pounds a bag because we're just so high use. But certain spices for me I don't use often, like cinnamon. So when I go to the health food store I'll buy a cinnamon from maybe there's a brand that's really beautiful. I don't know what it's called, but it comes in little glass bottles and I'll buy my cinnamon that way, cause it'll take me a year or two to use up my cinnamon and things like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, what do you as, as somebody who's in Ayurveda medicine, what is the what? What advice would you give women or men Like, what's a one thing that you've picked up that's such an essential to incorporate in your life?
Speaker 1:I think the number one thing that you've picked up that's such an essential to incorporate in your life.
Speaker 1:I think the number one thing is really focus on sleep and your circadian rhythm as the key to everything, because if we can fix sleep, we can get the brain back online, we can get gut health cleared up, everything inflammation cleared, the body can rejuvenate. But if we're going to defy circadian rhythm all the time and we're going to sleep late, wake up late and live this really disorganized life, then we're not supporting the body to be optimal and then we're never going to win at our health. Like when I started studying turmeric, I thought, okay, everyone will just take turmeric and we will win. And then I realized, wow, there's a large group of people who don't sleep well, so they'll never clear their inflammation overnight. So I started really focusing on sleep and teaching about sleep and creating solutions around sleep, because even for myself, if I don't sleep well, mood, energy, happiness everything is gone. So sleep is, I think, the next big bedrock to talk about, after we understand what chronic, low-grade, persistent inflammation is doing in the body and the damage that inflammation causes.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's powerful and it's so important, my gosh. It just makes up for everything that's happening in your body. Yeah, it does. It's hard when there's new moms and that process is hard, but yeah, I feel you it's an essential. Are there any exciting breakthroughs in autoimmune research that could change the way we treat these conditions? These autoimmune conditions besides Ayurveda Is there? Are there any other breakthroughs or anything that you've read? I think?
Speaker 1:there's a lot actually. So if you look at the world of functional medicine right now within functional medicine, I partner with so many functional medicine doctors. I've gone to many over the years. I'm always actively working with a doctor on optimizing for my health. We've learned so much about how, if you just got diagnosed with an autoimmune condition it just happened to someone on my team I always sit down and say, okay, what's the diet?
Speaker 1:Where are we going to go? Anti-inflammatory and get rid of things that might be the culprit. Maybe it's gluten, maybe it's sugar, maybe it's dairy. We have to figure out what that is. Then let's look at that gut health. Let's get a stool test. You never know what is causing damage. I just read a stool test on someone and they had parasites. It was all leaky gut and I was like, wow, we've got work to do there. Then we can kind of go further from there.
Speaker 1:Blood work what are your micronutrient deficiencies? Are you severely vitamin D deficient? In my case, I have a lot of deficiencies and so it's important to focus on those and optimize for that and get back online. Then we can go even further and say is this a mold problem? Is this something else? Is this heavy metal? Is this food intolerance that's driving your whole body to be in a haywire type situation all the time? Is it vagus nerve toning that's needed? Is it that we're too stressed so we're in fight or flight all the time and we're never in rest and digest? So the body's never getting what it needs, and so we're just going to stay autoimmune forever. And so Ayurveda has a lot of tools, and so I like treating with spices first cause. I like to just get the job done, and once we've got that inflammation down and we're feeling better, then okay, now I have a little bit of leverage with you to talk about.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's take some action around sleep some action around gut health, and then we can go on down the line from there. Wow, that's phenomenal. Now, as far as parasites go, how often do you recommend? I mean, does Ayurveda medicine allow cleansing for parasites, and do they do it with herbs and spices, or there's capsules?
Speaker 1:Yes. So Ayurveda has been a science that has taught detoxification forever, and so I've been to India many times, lived in-house in detoxification centers. A lot of times people find Ayurveda when they're at their death's door and they've been sick forever, and Ayurveda can usually detox and clear out what doesn't serve, rebuild and rejuvenate. So yeah, I mean, we are all about gut health and gut health cleansing. So I've beenjuvenate. So yeah, I mean we are all about gut health and gut health cleansing. So I've been to India and done enemas colonics they do really rigorous types of massage to push everything out of the cells so you can clear it out A lot of walking in nature, hydration.
Speaker 1:Yoga is a sister science to Ayurveda. So everything they teach in yoga Ayurveda is just really teaching the physical side of how to implement that so you can have a yogic spiritual life and then pranayama, deep breathing. So any one of the tools can create a profound result. We're just iso-bio individuals, so our job is to journey to figure out which tool is the best for us. For me, turmeric was the best, so I'm always turmeric first, then I know from so many and myself gut health second, sleep third, and then we can keep going down that list.
Speaker 2:Yes, are cleansing permitted for children as well?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. If you have a parasite, you have to cleanse it out. There's no choice. What are the symptoms?
Speaker 2:How would we know our children have parasites though choice? How would we know our children have parasites though you know it's interesting.
Speaker 1:My son recently was having some health struggles and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with him and it's hard when it's your kid, cause you're always too close but his diet narrowed a lot. He all of a sudden was saying no, I'm not eating that anymore. I'm not eating that anymore. And I thought I'm in a household cooking you the most fresh, organic, healthy, ayurvedic food on earth and you're saying no to everything. And it was all of a sudden within a year. And his behavior looked really hypoglycemic, so like eating crashing, eating crashing. And I couldn't figure out what was wrong. So I took him to two doctors. I took him to pediatric endocrinology for a big blood work to understand what the issue was. But I also took him to functional medicine in order to stool test. And I'm so glad I did. My intuition said just do a stool test, just check.
Speaker 1:Turns out he had Giardia, h pylori, massive leaky gut and I thought well, okay, first of all, that could be all of us. We all went to India together this year and we all went to Italy. That could be me, that could be anyone in the household, okay, so it was surprising to me, I didn't expect it, but anytime we travel internationally we should expect that possibility. And anytime you see any behavior changes all of a sudden, our gut issues. I've had a disrupted gut a few times this year. I should have put those puzzle pieces together and said you know, anytime you go to India any country like India you should check. You never know what was in the water or food you consumed.
Speaker 2:That's right. So those are just the basic like behaviors to look out for, like you know lack of sleep, lack of appetite, yeah, and then the stool test is an essential for sure, at least. Constipation, constipation, yeah, yeah, that's another good idea, is a good recommendation for a parasite cleanse for a whole family.
Speaker 1:I think so. I think I don't think we should parasite cleanse unless we know there's a parasites. That's why, for myself, I ordered a stool test because I don't think I have it. But I certainly won't prophylactically send all these things down the gut to kill off something that doesn't exist. I have a gut in a system that I have to treat really carefully. So I'm going to test, know the truth and then only treat accordingly, and same for anyone else in the household. I don't think we should do prophylactic treatment. But can we annually detox? Yes, Just general gentle. Detoxing is very effective to clean and clear the accumulations that happen each year.
Speaker 2:Now, if there are families that have children that have been. I just want to understand this so that people have a place to go. I do have a large following of families that have kids from vaccine damage and they are always reaching out. You know, do you know anyone? Any functional medicines? Anything that can help Is Ayurveda, right for people that have children that have been damaged by vaccines.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's a great question. It's a tough one. I've had many friends who have suffered from that. It made me very, very careful when it came to my own kids' time. I think functional medicine first. It's so important to get an MD on board who understands you and goes down the line of testing. The way I see it is. Functional medicine is going to answer all the questions. They're going to tell you what's wrong. They're going to figure it out. They know great protocols to address it and address it very completely.
Speaker 2:Because it reaches the gut right.
Speaker 1:They'll understand a lot from the gut yeah, they're going to do the stool test. There's so many great companies right now that have parasite related products or gut healing products. I have certain supplement companies for probiotics and gut that I trust and love, but Ayurveda is a lifestyle. Ayurveda is what comes after we've dealt with the problem. Or if you're an adult, then yes, I can detox you and things like that, but I don't work with kids, so you would have to find an Ayurvedic practitioner who works with kids and typically it's funny. Ayurveda's tools are usually not yummy or fun, and so I've never been able to get my own kids to do them. I'm always like let's do this and they're like no. So if you have a compliant, great, organic, happy kid, sure maybe, but not always, because our our processes take more time and our processes are oftentimes spices and things like this that might not taste good.
Speaker 2:Wow. Well, thank you so much for today. I appreciate you and the work that you do. It's amazing and I can't wait for this to air so that people are just learning all about it and they're reaching out to you for their needs.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you so much, thank you Thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.